Hybrid vs Heirloom my experience

[b54red]

Don you are fortunate to have had such good luck with Brandywines. I've made some Brandy Boys in the past and this year one Cowlicks has produced really well for me. I have tried them off and on for over 30 years because of the great things I heard about them but they rarely do anything but grow and die without fruit. I have found some large pinks that are equal to Brandywines like Limbaugh's Legacy, Stump of the World and Marianna's Peace and they are a little easier for me to grow.
Big Beef on the other hand has been the one true constant producer for me for years. It has surpassed all previous hybrids in both taste and disease tolerance. I found a new one this year called Jetsetter. It's a good tasting tomato and the one plant in my garden produced 61 tomatoes.
I'm debating trying Goliath but don't know if it will give me anything I'm not already getting from Big Beef and Jetsetter.
The most enjoyable thing about planting 78 different varieties this year was comparing the plants and the taste of all those different types of tomatoes. I'm finding that I am slowly but surely dropping some of my old hybrids that I grew for years because of the poor taste, mealy texture, or just plain rock hardness that some of them have and replacing them with much better tasting heirlooms. I don't see Big Beef ever being dropped from my planting list nor will Sungold or Brandy Boy.

[TomNJ]

Originally Posted by TomatoDon

Maybe I have dull tasters, but I've never distinguished that much difference. Subtle difference yes, major ones, no. And one year one variety might be the best tasting, and the next year not. In my opinion all of the similar types have similar taste. I know it will be akin to blashpemy here, but if you blind-folded 100 ordinary tomato-loving people and let them taste test 25 varieties, I think it would be pure luck for any of them to identify varieties consistently by taste alone. Again, of similar varieties. Obviously you could tell the difference between a Sungold and a Black Krim, and part of that would be the size. But if you had Ponderosa, Red Sunset Horizon, Big Boy, Better Boy, Sudduth, NAR, Chapman, Mortgage Lifter, Bonnie's Pink, Big Beef, Goliath, and so on I'd be surprised if tghe average person could identify them based on taste alone. Maybe someone here could with some of them, but I'd still be surprised to see anyone, worldwide, hit 100% by identifying by taste alone.
DS

Thanks Don for saying what I have been hesitant to say on this site!

As a long time wine taster I know that it takes a long time to train one's palette to be sensitive to nuances in taste. One of the problems is that the tongue gets desensitized after repeated tastes, not to mention variations in bottle to bottle, the environment, your body chemistry, effects of foods, and psychological influences such as your preconceived expectations.

I agree the best way to separate the men from the boys is with a blind tasting. Amazing how many wine tasters who name seven different fruits in a wine's nose are totally stumped when it comes to repeating same in the blind. Without the label in front of them they often can not even identify the grape, never mind the country, estate, or vintage.

The same is true for tomatoes, which I believe have an even more narrow range of flavors than wine. Yes there are experts who can detect and characterize minor differences on a fairly consistent basis, but they are rare. Besides, most of us eat tomatoes with some enhancements, such as salt, olive oil, mozzarella, basil, bacon, mayonnaise, and bread, where the tomato taste nuances are easily lost or become irrelevant.

I love the flavor of virtually all beefsteak tomatoes, especially in the ways I eat them, and tend to choose my varieties more by texture, size, and productivity. A nice fat slab of a ripe, solid, meaty beefsteak tomato on a BLT with mayo, or drizzled with EV olive oil & basil and topped with fresh mozzarella, is likely to be multi-orgasmic regardless of the variety.

TomNJ

[Timmah!]

TomNJ, I agree with everything you said; except one thing: Salt. It magnifies the flavor of whatever it's added to in my experience, rather than obfuscating any flavors. If a tomato tastes somewhat weak in it's presentation, the flavors stand out significantly more with just a little bit of the salt.

[TomatoDon]

I'm much the same way Tom. I grew at least 23 different varieties this year and the ones at the top of the list are the larger red and pinks. Every year it's that way. I also notice when I slice a tomato for a picture here it's usually in three thick slices -- the bottom end, a hefty center slice, and one more as thick as I can go and not get into the core at the top. Then I take the top and lay it flat and cut out the core and then slice the good meat into bite size chunks.

The ones I liked best this year that weren't large red and pink are Purple Haze, KBX, and the mystery yellow Amish. I've tried year after year with the darks such as Paul Robeson, Cherokee Purple, Black Krim, etc. I might get one good tomato from each plant, at the most five, and sometimes none. They die, they wilt, they get disease, they don't produce, and so on. And...I've never detected that exotic smokey flavor that people rave over in any of them. In my soil, with my amendments, and in my climate there is just nothing special about any of the larger dark tomatoes in my experience. I planted five large darks this year and I think I picked three good tomatoes. Purple Haze is an entirely different story....VERY good production and taste. It's one I definitely have on my list for next year.

DS

[camochef]

Basicly, I gave up growing hybrids years ago. Occasionally I have to try a new one, but the experience is usually not to my liking. Last year they got me with sweet seedless, it produced a lot of smaller sized tomatoes but the taste wasn't to my liking.
My favorite over the years has been the brandywines, especially Cowlicks Brandywine, but Glicks is a close second in taste, nothing beats cowlicks over the years for production.
Others beat it occasionally for taste, last year Dana's Dusky Rose took the #1 spot andit's doing pretty good this year so far. Barlow Jap is right on its heels as is Tarasenko6
I picked 132 tomatoes this past week, my first week of getting ripe fruit. Everyone I taste changes the listings right now, but they will stabilize eventually. I picked my first ripe Cowlick BW on the 26th of july this year (I was over a month later in getting them planted this year), Still no ripe BW-Glicks or BW-Sudduths. I didn't plant Black BW, Yellow BW, OTV, Red BW, Purple BW, or any of the others this year. But did do some crosses like Gary O'Sena, Dora, Bear Creek, and Liz Birt, and others like JD's Special C-Tex, and Ed's Millenium.
I tried a few favorites of others, like I do every year, but in this area, I'd have to say, that Brandywine is the King.
Rose did very well for me last year, most in the two pound range and very tasty, but later in the season. I've picked a couple this year so far not near the same size. weather is like night and day. Last year was very wet and cool. This year is very hot and dry. I've been watering almost every day! All things to consider. No tomato is going to perform the same year after year in the same area as there are too many variables. Although I have seen many that do quite well be it wet or dry. Amazon Chocolate has been one of those over the years, but I just picked my first 4 of them yesterday evening and haven't tasted one yet!
Sorry for Rambling!
Camo

[Dewayne mater]

Tomato Don:

You may also be on to something with the "dull tasters" comment. Science has documented that a small percentage of folks fall into the category of "super tasters." Apparently, some are born with many more taste buds per square inch than others and an acute sense of smell has something to do with it too. Some supertasters end up putting that skill to work for food production companies as product tasters, others in the wine industry, etc.

If there are super tasters, then there likely folks on the other end of the spectrum that might be dull tasters. I'm not saying you are one, but merely that it is possible for there to be such a category of folks. It kind reminds me of Remy,the brother rat in Ratatouille who said "if you can muscle past the gag reflex, it opens up a whole world of food possibilities." :-)

So, to me, grow what you like, enjoy what you have, and keep trying new things. That's what makes the journey fun.

[b54red]

Tomato Don, I didn't have too much luck with the dark tomatoes until this year. Since I live a little south and east of you our climate should be similar. This year I had no luck with Paul Robeson but JD's Special C Tex, Indian Stripe, BTD Pink, Gary O' Sena, and Black Krim did very well for me. I waited until April to put all of them out except the Gary O' Sena because I heard they would do well in the heat. All of them tasted very good and I did get that smokey flavor from a couple of the JDs and Black Krim later in the season. They seem to get better flavor the longer they remain on the vine in the heat as opposed to picking at first blush. Of course I get more bird and squirrel damage when I do that but it is worth it to me.

[cecilsgarden1958]

I have always enjoyed the hybrids BUSH Big Boy and Mountain Pride over Better Boy or Big Beef. For my area anyway they produce awesome, compared to their counter parts and have better flavor (Hybrid flavor)
Never had much luck with most heirlooms up in here. Most be the shade. Really enjoyed Rose the one year I grew it, but didn't have good production. Also, like Red Brandywine and Bonny Best.
I have retired my garden, but still ended up with 5 plants.

CECIL

[TomatoDon]

Hi DeWayne,

I said that pretty much tong-n-cheek, but I don't really analyze tomato taste the way a wine taster would, as TomNJ referred to earlier. I gave up any hope of attempting that when I realized that tomatoes will taste slightly different from year to year depending on rain and general conditions. Maybe one day I will detect the smokey essence of a dark tomato, but so far I haven't in any that I've tried. I guess I go for a general taste, and that is what we always read about as the "old timey tomatoey taste," and I especially like them tangy. I've tried a good many across the spectrum but always find myself coming back to the medium sized pinks and reds. I have tried several for size, but many of those get so deformed as they reach two pounds that they are hard to peel and I seem to waste a lot. I've tried to learn to like tomatoes with the skin on, but I never did get used to that.

I'll be planting a few more this week in hopes of a fall crop. Am curious to see if I can tell any taste difference in those, as has also been mentioned here at T'ville.

DS