Pruning and sucker removal on indoor grown, indet. dwarf plants

[amideutch]

Wow.. monster fruits on those tiny plants.. what varieties are they?

These are from the Grumpy Line. Check out Yukon Quest and Iditarod at Tatiana's TomatoBase as she has both varieties.

Ami

[z_willus_d]

Ray, the more I think about adding in those small cages, the more I reason concerns. If I insert the cages now, I will force the light level well above optimal. Since the cages are 33" when fully inserted, longer if not, I will be pushing my light 3' or more above the plane of soil. The plants are less than a foot tall now, so the light would then be over 2' above them when I really want something more like 1' above.

What do you think the pros/cons of using that net trellis in layers run horizontally across the rack. So maybe every 8-12" run a layer of trellis that could be used to support the branches of the vine. I'm worried the trellis might sag across the full 4' run of the cage, so maybe cross bars could be inserted at the edges to add support and provide something to which to attach the netting. What do you think? Have you tried something like this before?

My problem with the cages are two fold: 1st, they will set the light level too high for some time; 2nd, later they will not be tall enough to facilitate the full height of the bigger dwarfs, which are likely to reach 4' or more.

-naysen

[rnewste]

Naysen,

I am waiting until as long as possible before installing the cages to all plants, for the very reason you mention. I used the netting last Winter and could slide it down past the light when I needed another "layer". However, trying to get in and prune, fertilize, etc. was a pain.

What we REALLY need is some form of "stackable" cage assembly, where you could add a section at a time as the plant grew, and you raised the lights. Think of the camping drink cup which telescopes when pulled up in to place.

In the EarthTainer Guide there is a link to an on-line source for the wire rope clips, but if you just need 6 as in your case, get them at Lowes at a cost of $2.88. They are in the center section of the store in pull out bins in Hardware and Fasteners.

Also, the total cage length is 33 inches. I insert mine about 6 inches so this leaves them about 27 inches above the surface.

Raybo

[cloz]

You could make sections out of that green coated roll fencing. The mesh is about 3"x2" so you could make them in any multiple of that. Make a bunch of equal sized 12" sections and add one section as needed. Just ziptie them together. If it doesn't seem solid enough, just add a couple of thin bamboo poles to stiffen it. If you need access holes to pick tomatoes or fertilize the plants, just clip a couple of wires to enlarge a hole. I used a 12" diameter by 4' fence cage for a cherry tomato plant on my deck with 3 or 4 enlarged holes to facilitate picking tomatoes. It was able to support the plant just fine.

[z_willus_d]

Cloz, a picture's worth a thousand words. Happen to have one of your setup? In any case, I appreciate your ideas.
-naysen

[cloz]

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

Cloz, a picture's worth a thousand words. Happen to have one of your setup? In any case, I appreciate your ideas.
-naysen

No. My stuff is all stacked away and tarps tied over it for the winter. Just imagine stacking rings or boxes of the same size one on top of the other and tying them together with a ziptie or piece of wire. I would imagine that 2 15" sections would be enough for dwarfs that grow 3' and one more section for 4 footers. first section could go on when the plants are around a foot and when they are 6 to 8" above the cage, you put the next section on and that would allow the lights to be within 8 inches of the plants. Using that green fencing you could form the cage to any shape you want. It could be the shape of your earthtainer if that's what you're using or round if you have round pots or 5 gallon buckets.

[ddsack]

Raybo and naysen, I remembered seeing a thread on pvc cages and found this link -
http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/tom_pvc/

You certainly could make them to stack in sections. I think for dwarfs in the house, you'd want the vertical pieces to be shorter too. And how about a free standing base around the container that the verticals plug into. Lots of ways to make it modular to fit different configurations. Anyway, just another option to consider.

[z_willus_d]

Dee, I seem to recall visiting that PVC cage page before. In my case, I already have a rack with some structure, so building up a PVC structure would just be recreating what I somewhat already have. My main concern with using the rack and trellis netting or a cut-to-size plastic fencing run would be in ensuring sufficient rigidity in the rack support. I don't want a sagging trellis, and I expect I'd have one without additional cross-bars on which to attach the netting/fencing. One idea I'm toying with is the possibility of drilling a small hole into the cage that I can use to machine-screw a metal support structure. To this metal bar, I would then affix the trellis and hopefully have enough attach points to ensure sufficient rigidity in the netting. Drilling holes in the rack poles isn't a great thing either, though, as it will reduce their strength. I need to find some cheap metal cross bars.
-naysen

[rnewste]

Naysen,

I am using 24 inch long bamboo sticks to support the plants in their early growth stage. They are inserted 6 inches deep into the Grow Media.



You could initially insert them lower into the Media to accommodate your lights, then raise them as the plants grow and you raise the lights accordingly. This way, you wouldn't need to install the cages until the plants were about 18 to 20 inches tall.

Raybo

[amideutch]

Naysen, due to the fact you are growing Dwarfs, indoors, under grow lights you might want to support the plants horizontally versus vertically. This way you can move your lights up and down without constraints and get better overall light transmission to your plants. The link below is for a commercially made trellis system (HORTI-TRELLIS) that can be used vertically or horizontally.
Since your using earthtainers you could build a frame with 2x4's that the tainers would set on with 2x4 vertical supports at each corner to which you can attach the trellis to. If need be you could put up a second trellis above the first if needed and the Tainers weight setting on the frame would hold it in place.
Just a thought, Ami

http://www.besteshydroponics.com/Gar.../prod_649.html

http://www.4hydro.com/growroom/hortiTrellis.asp

[z_willus_d]

Originally Posted by rnewste

Naysen,

I am using 24 inch long bamboo sticks to support the plants in their early growth stage. They are inserted 6 inches deep into the Grow Media.


You could initially insert them lower into the Media to accommodate your lights, then raise them as the plants grow and you raise the lights accordingly. This way, you wouldn't need to install the cages until the plants were about 18 to 20 inches tall.
Raybo

Ray, I have two concerns, not necessarily well founded, with what you propose here:
(1) My experience has been if one buries a stake (or bamboo stick) to a given depth and then later pulls the stake/stick up a way, the stake/stick will become flimsy and loosen in the soil/grow media. I suppose to combat this effect it might be possible to either (a) pull the stick/stake up and re-insert to the new shallower depth, though that might be difficult if the vine stem is tightly coupled; or (b) try and tamp the soil/medium down around the stake/stick after pulling it upward.
(2) These dwarf plants seem to be quite brittle and unforgiving when bent. They tend to snap, so I'm concerned if I don't get that lower ring (smaller diameter) over and around the branches early on, I will not be able to without damaging the plants.

In any event, I do like the idea of using the bamboo stakes as well as a cage, and who knows, maybe a trellis for support above the cage. I think I'll buy the cages and bamboo stakes today and live with the suboptimal light height.

Thanks,
Naysen

[z_willus_d]

Originally Posted by amideutch

Naysen, due to the fact you are growing Dwarfs, indoors, under grow lights you might want to support the plants horizontally versus vertically. This way you can move your lights up and down without constraints and get better overall light transmission to your plants. The link below is for a commercially made trellis system (HORTI-TRELLIS) that can be used vertically or horizontally.
Since your using earthtainers you could build a frame with 2x4's that the tainers would set on with 2x4 vertical supports at each corner to which you can attach the trellis to. If need be you could put up a second trellis above the first if needed and the Tainers weight setting on the frame would hold it in place.
Just a thought, Ami

http://www.besteshydroponics.com/Gar.../prod_649.html

http://www.4hydro.com/growroom/hortiTrellis.asp

Ami, what you're describing is basically what I had in mind to start with, but instead of building a frame with wood and 2x4's I'm using the metal frame of a prefabricated rack. You can make it out in my pictures, posted on the Winter grow thread.

Thanks for the ideas.
-naysen

[z_willus_d]

Well, the Lowes that I was banking on have the 33" cages just called to inform me of a system glitch, whereas they have in truth qty. 0 of the 33" cages rather than the 86 displayed online. Oh well. They did have 42" cages and were able to offer them to me at the same price. I bit. I figure I can wire-clip off the fourth ring, and maybe there's some kind of latch I can use to re-attach (short of re welding it). If we could find the write bridge, we could have that telescoping ring structure solution that Ray was describing earlier, just adding on the rings as needed. Any ideas for the binding bridge?
-naysen

[rnewste]

Naysen,

Frankly, just cut off the top section of the cage, right above the third hoop. Toss the top piece as it will never fit into your rack setup. Too big in diameter.

Glad to hear you were able to get the cages, but it is some work to cut the tops off. I used a saber-saw to cut off the cage legs for the old EarthTainer II cage system and it was not easy. Be sure to lock the cage in a vice for cutting each leg.

Raybo

[z_willus_d]

Well I think if I overlap them by a couple inches, they might fit just so. At least, in my current rack, which has a 2' depth. I think the Lowes rack are only 18" depth, which will be a problem. Plants seem to like there new home. I was out there with the vibrating shaver this morning self-pollinating. I'm looking forward to some magical green lumps next.

I believe the 1/8" wire rope clip might also serve to clamp together two parallel pieces of the tomato cage tri-pod run. I'm going to test that hope out with the one $0.88 unit I purchased with the cages. It would cost some extra money, but if it works we'd have the ability to add-on segments of cage as needed.
-naysen