Croatian Brandywine Questions

[ljp]

I planted 3 seeds about two weeks ago -- no signs of life. I planted 64 varieties and only 6 aren't germinating. Of course, I was really looking forward to the varieties that didn't germinate.

[rnewste]

Regarding my seed saving method for the Brandywine from Croatia mailings, I used Feldon 30's processing method of OxiClean, processing one tomato at a time. I let those seeds dry out for several days and then packaged them into the 15 seeds per envelope you all received.

The point being that you individually received seeds from one specific tomato in each envelope. So, some got seeds from tomato #1, then others got seeds from tomato #2, and so on. I never mixed seeds from tomato #1 and tomato #2 in the same envelope.

The fact that many of you are getting both RL and PL seedlings from the same original tomato is interesting. I should have paid more attention in Genetics Class - but I was out chasing.... well, you know.

Maybe someone can explain how seeds from the same tomato fruit would yield both RL and PL plants.

Raybo

[travis]

Raybo, now that makes a lot of sense ... what you just posted.

Okay, coincidently, I got 20 or 25% potato leaf from the few seeds I planted. If I remember correctly (and without having to look back), I think one or two other growers also got roughly 25% potato leaf. And that is the expected ratio if the regular leaf seed mother was was regular leaf but PL recessive.

Of course, some people who planted less than 4 or 5 seeds also got a potato leaf sprout, but that's the luck of the draw, I suppose.

Can you tell us which of us who got potato leaf sprouts got seeds from the same single tomato, and whether you can identify the specific packet of yours from which our seeds came?

If so, do you still have that packet, and how many seeds are left in it?

[rnewste]

Travis,

I didn't mark each packet with a code for each specific tomato. All of the saved seed came from the 4 RL plants which were isolated in my yard. I think in my original BfC thread there is a photo of those 4 plants.

So, for those who have the space in their gardens this year, it will be fun to watch how the RL and PL BfC plants compare with each other. This is turning into an interesting episode of "CSI Miami" - Tomatoville-style.

Raybo

[mysidx]

I've got two regular leaf plants that are being flooded as we speak. I think we have received seven inches in six hours. My beds drain well, but the roots are swimming now.

[Elizabeth]

I am starting 10 more from the batch Raybo sent me. They are getting the cold fridge treatment in a wet paper towel right now and will be extra carefully planted in my seed ICU in the house

I have a few rare varieties (from 1998-2005) that wouldn't germ in the garage with the rest of my seeds so I already had the setup going to see if I could wake those babies up. I have an extra slot, so the BfC will have a cozy place to germinate.

I'll let you know what comes up. I will plant out both RL and PL if I get some RL out of the new batch so they can be compared.

[chancethegardener]

Germination rate of Raybo's seeds were very good for me. I planted one in the raised bed. Same night, that plant's stem was cut at the base (maybe grubs?). I tried to save it but it didn't make it. I transplanted another plant in the same spot and it is doing well so far. Thanks Raybo!

[Elizabeth]

My bad germ problem probably has to do with the fact that my seeds arrived during a heat wave. After sitting in the mail truck all day (no doubt with the sun beating on the mail bins) they were put in my metal security mail box at the curb which is fantastic at deterring mail thieves, but is not kind to seeds that arrive on a hot day (thankfully those are few and far between here on the coast). I'm hoping some extra TLC will bring them along.

[rnewste]

If any of you totally exhaust your supply of seeds due to poor germination / outside disasters, etc. let me know right away. I have a few spare packets I put away from last Season.

Raybo

[ssi912]

i planted 2 seeds first week of feb. germinated in 4-5 days, both regular. kept the most vigorous seedling. planted an 8 inch plant last weekend. it was one of my more vigorous reg. leaf seedlings. seems in my experience p.l. seedlings are usually more vigorous than r.l. seedlings. let you know how it produces in warm temp. with high humidity and very rich soil. thanks for the seeds.

[Structure]

I only have one growing in the yard right now, but it's PL. Planted out late Feb and it's around 10 inches tall now.

[greyghost]

Ray, I planted 2 seeds for myself and T'Ville buddy-both germinated quickly
and are both healthy, regular leaf seedlings. Sowed more seeds and will
look for any PL seedlings (and will grow a PL seedling also). Thanks very much
for the opportunity to grow BFC. Darlene

[Barbee]

I started my seeds yesterday 3-22. I'll edit my post to show my results when I know something. Just for the record, I'll be culling any potato leaf plants
Thanks again for the seeds Ray!

Update:
All plants are regular leaf and have been potted up and sent to the greenhouse to finish growing. Hooray!

[travis]

This thread also shows how many "off-type" tomatoes from seed shares can occur, and get passed along from year to year as the "correct" type.

I'm not for a minute saying that Raybo's seed is "off-type," so nobody get their panties in a bunch just yet.

What I am saying is that there is a much greater likelihood for promulgating off-type tomatoes from seed shares (especially if from un-bagged sources) when the several individual growers only plant one, two, or three seeds, intending only to grow one or two plants.

Follow me?

You see, if an accidental cross happens, the recessive genes will show up in the F2 or F3 seeds. But if you only plant two or three seeds, you stand a higher chance of perpetuating the recessive traits for yet another year, because they might be masked by the dominant traits in those two sprouts, but from still segregating germplasm.

So, what I'm saying is that if you only plant two or three seeds from what you think should be a regular leaf red, and unknowingly they are F2 or F3s from an accidental outcross to a potato leaf pink, and you're looking for regular leaf red and you get two regular leaf sprouts, and in the end you get red tomatoes, you may have unknowingly grown an off-type the seeds from which could still throw a potato leaf pink next year from the seeds you pass along to the next fellow.

Just something to ponder. And again, I'm not even assuming that the potato leaf seedlings in this seed share from Raybo are indicative of a "wrong type," because y'all will remember that Raybo said he saw potato leaf types in the transplants he obtained from the Master Gardener's group. So, who really knows what the archtype is to begin with?

[Structure]

Nice point Travis. Especially in terms of future sharing.

But it sure is a fun national experiment that Raybo started!

thanks Raybo!