I've dug a shallow grave, what am I doing? In over my head..

[geeboss]

LBlala

I might be able to assist you by taking you over to Southern States where you can get Alfalfa pellets, Cockadoodle Doo, Spagnum Peat, and Pine Bark Fines plus I'll help with 5lbs of Kelp Meal and 5 lbs Azomite I've got plenty to spare for the next several years. I'm in Fairfax, VA so a road trip will solve your supply needs. As pointed out by others your clay soil can be used when mixed with these amendments by using 1/3 to 1/2 of the clay soil.

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by LBlala

Whew.. Amazing relief to have some advice, & details & options are super helpful... THANK you all! I had to take a bit to figure out where to get everything & price compare. It's been raining so I didn't get out to do much in the yard; luckily the tarp held & my hole/grave didn't fill up w/ rainwater.

Tania (or anyone), any chance Tomato-Tone would suffice for a fertilizer? Or this 'Magic Mix', a general purpose nutrimix I was given? Or perhaps together? I'm still learning my garden chem. The homemade mix, I was told, 'is good for everything'. I haven't used it on anything except flowers for a month.
Mixer's recipe is: Alfalfa meal, cotton/canola seed meal, kelp meal, a chicken guano named Cockadoodle Doo, & Milorganite made from composted human waste, epsom salts, & rock phosphate. She says "all are equal parts except for the Mg, phosphate and potassium, which is 1lb to 10lbs of the others".

I need to learn about these #s but in case anyone cares her recipe says "Alfalfa meal 3-1-2, Cottonseed meal 6-2-0, Kelp meal 1-0-2, Cackadoodle Doo chicken guano 4-1-2, Milorganite 6-2-0, Rock phosphate 0-3-0, Epsom salts"


I've found I can get most of the other items suggested, but sure about some, & then there's price... No alfalfa meal except online, only something at a feed store & pet store/cage bedding type stuff. I don't have wood ashes (or a fireplace) so was going to go w/ the kelp meal.. Best I've seen is $20/4lb bags.. Bone meal, kelp meal, gypsum, peat, & lime are each $10-$20 for 3-6lb bags... A tad online.. I don't have any good compost of my own right now, I expected to buy some but I know it won't be cheap. So that's at least $70 for soil prep (not incl peat). As I understand it, I'd mix all of the stuff into the ground now, not little at a time over a season, right?

...I'm lookin into the raised bed/wood sides for once the lil guys are out of their cups & safe in the ground. They sound like a good idea so my dirt doesn't wash down the city sewer as it's def increased in volume once out of the hole.

Also only going to allow myself to dig max 1' from here out.. Was def carried away... In my hours of research I kept seeing things like many toms hav 4' roots, but also many ppl are against soil amendments as the plant will act like it's a container & stay within the good stuff, becoming a runt. Good to know!

...Think I'll also stick one plant in some "not messed w/" ground as an experiment. Watch it produce 10x more!

You can get a lot of stuff off Amazon for a decent price, like bat guano ( great stuff!), kelp/fish emulsion, which is my weekly mainstay, and fish meal, which is nice to mix in at planting time.
If you have a feed store, horse or rabbit alfalfa pellets are great and really condition the soil as well as fertilize.
★★★★ o doodle doo is good but the Milorganite, I use more for leafy veggies, or, preferably, my tropical vines/green ornamentals. Its a bit high in nitrogen ( mine says 12 something?

[Tracydr]

Tomato tone is good stuff. The pet store alfalfa is great!
Next fall, gather leaves and get them shredded with a lawn mower. Anybody have grass clippings? City compost? Stables?

[LBlala]

SO nice to have folks who aren't bothered yet by endless soil questions/chat......
-How do you know how much lime to add, it's based on soil & other amendments added, no? I plan on sending in a soil test this week (lil late eh). Can it be added to the top 6"/so of a bed, just a day from planting? (epsoma garden lime). Maybe I worry too much & should just plant stuff? I'm freaked out about ph (killing plants, etc...) & amendments. Should I chill & throw things in there, or try to calculate it (prob some online tool out there).

-I thought peat was great, now I read it offers little/no nutrients, won't re-wet when it dries, rapes the bogs... I crumbled/mixed it really well a/ the orig soil to the top few inches.. Need to fill the hole another 6": should I add more city leaf compost, 'garden soil', potting soil, or more peat? Is one 'bad'?

Fun thing happened, tarp gave in after another rainstorm, my grave/hole filled up with water, took a while to bail out, save some of the rainwater tho.. Right after I started filling the hole w/ what I'd got (no alfalfa) Can soaked pellets be mixed in the ~upper 6" this close (days) to transplant time?

My neighbor is a fantastic older lady who's been planting veggies in my beds until I moved in 2 yrs ago.. She'd put in a sand & "a lot of all sorts of things" over the yrs. Ask her a LOT, but she's fine w/ chemicals (I'd pref none)..

The soil under the lawn has never been messed with (where my new plots are). I finally asked if all the rocks I'd dug out were bad, told me they're for drainage (oops). She gave me sand, told me not to put in hay, & wanted me to put lime in there (not sure what kind, but I did buy the epsoma 'garden' lime... She's a HUGE fan of lime, puts it on her putting green lovely lawn. I fear lime bc I don't yet understand it)...

What I put in so far, bottom to top: -Gallon bag of part rotted kitchen scraps, -Yard waste (approx 5 gal bucket), -Gypsum, -River size & smaller rocks I'd dug out... & layered/mixed throughout: -Sand, -1/3 of orig soil, -City leaf compost (layered/mixed throughout), -Few handfuls of 'composted cow manure' (guessed based on bag directions, tried to head burn warning), -40lb bag of 'organic garden soil', -My grass clippings, -Old potting soil from last yr incl its pearlite (~13 gal bucket), -Some vermiculite, -40 lb bag of peat crumbled/mixed in with orig soil (in the upper 6"), & plan to add some lime, & that Magic Mix &/or tomato tone (guess one or the other, I don't know enough to know how much is too much). --Ugh sorry for ramble..

[Got Worms?]

Use compost, then some compost and more compost, when it's all mixed in well, add lots more compost and mix again.

The lime will adjust your ph. Your soil is acidic, if we go by your location (east of the lime line) and your neighbors affinity for lime. Sooner or later you will need a soil test to see where you stand with nutrients and PH. You can get a ph tester and shoot for a 6.5 That will give you a good ph for most veggies. For now if you're short of cash...I would take any recommendations that your neighbor gives about ph and lime...Nothing like asking someone that has gardened in your soil.

Free compost (not organic) in D.C. http://www.examiner.com/article/urban-composting-where-to-get-compost-or-make-your-own-dc

[Got Worms?]

P.S. I also agree with the raised beds, gypsum, alfalfa meal/pellets, and coffee grounds (free at Starbucks).
Charlie

[dustdevil]

Sometimes with dug out clay you get the "bathtub effect"...all the water runs to the path of least resistance...your hole. By adding peat moss to your soil mix, it helps absorb extra moisture. Maybe add some time release fertilizer to the soil...throw in a politician

[LBlala]

Originally Posted by Got Worms?

Free compost (not organic) in D.C.

Thanks! I'd heard about city comp on here! Picked some up last Fri (only 10 min from the transfer station). The city claims it's purely leaves (not ppls grass/yard clippings) tho it looks like wood chips & smells like ammonia or some chem. I put sev buckets in, tho it was a lil painful.. Put most mixed in the bottom, pretending to believe it's not too chemmy. My composter comes tomorrow!!! Wooooohoo!
....Will pick up more gypsum, coffee grounds (free=great idea!), & alfalfa pellets....... Been reading on here that you can maybe add em in, after soaking, from the top, also heard "more isn't better", confused, will see. Curious what the soil lab will say (also about lead..) gotta get that in. Never heard of the "lime line"!

Prob too concerned about how each thing changes PH, being 'too much/little' fertilizer. Slightly regretful of discarding my Mom's theory of "stick it in the ground & it'll grow, I don't believe in amendments, or your soil type!" I just want em to be THE BEST I can grow (lol) even got Charles Wilber's book... We're already getting into the 85-90 deg day streaks. I've got several (6?) sadass little transplants, gettin rootbound, yellow, too dried too often, in 10oz paper cups. Not sure if they're even worth planting, hear if you traumatize lil ones they won't produce much later. Maybe a waste of space. Maybe should just get a few new ones. Least I can't wreck em much more.

Originally Posted by dustdevil

Sometimes with dug out clay you get the "bathtub effect"...all the water runs to the path of least resistance.....throw in a politician

Lol good fertilizer though maybe too 'hot' (air)? Blegh. Re bathtub: I'm hearing that lots, think I'ma leave this "casket" w/ only 2 plants & see (6ft hole so..). Also now digging a couple simple, fertilized, 8" deep double dug holes. Maybe one w/o any fancy digging, just for experiment sake. Controls, sort of.

[habitat_gardener]

I'd save the alfalfa for the planting holes rather than mixing it in.

I've planted my tomatoes the past few years with a handful of alfalfa pellets in the bottom of the hole. I cover the alfalfa with a little soil, and then plant (deep) the tomato.

I've had great harvests in years when other people locally have complained that it wasn't a good tomato year. At a small community garden where I've planted only 8 plants, I was looking at the other 20 or so gardens yesterday. My tomatoes looked the healthiest and most vigorous. Of course, I also built up the raised bed and filled it with homemade compost as well as buckets of soil I'd built up over several years with compost (from another garden). And I mulched with a thin layer of straw.

At another garden, I used a lot of free coffee grounds one year to help fill the raised beds. If the coffee grounds dry out, they repel water, so it's important to mix them in well and not to leave a layer of them on the surface of the soil.

[Tracydr]

Instead digging down, next time try mounding up on top of the soil.

[LBlala]

Thanks! I got a few in!!! Caged & all.

Now I've run out of room!! Going to borrow a rototiller to help clear the crabgrass (aka my lawn) & brake up the ground. It's like a brick; I managed to clear a foot patch in like 30 mins. Tree roots too. Agree w/ that, will mound up, & never again dig out dirt from more than 1'

Have 8 more plants I REALLY want to get in asap (guess 2 for soon to be earthtainer). Man it's good I have this free time right now...

[habitat_gardener]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

Instead digging down, next time try mounding up on top of the soil.

I agree! Look into "lasagna gardening" or "sheet mulching." These are both ways to get build good garden soil with minimal work. You just cover up the grass (assuming it's not something like bermuda grass) with cardboard or newspaper, which deprives the grass of light, and pile on mulch and other organics. To plant in it, make a soil pocket.

[janezee]

Last year, I got 2"x8"x8' fir boards, bolted them together, and laid them on my lawn. Filled them with mushroom compost, with some peat moss, perlite, bone meal and lime, and planted. No digging. Had an amazing garden, with lots of food. Loved it so much, I'm doubling the size this year. (Taking a break today.)
I admire your enthusiasm and energy.
Me, I'm older, and lazier.

j

[meadowyck]

Good advice you have already received, however, I would kindly suggest not adding Milorganite to any food garden. I won't explain where it comes from, but it is one manure you don't want on something you are growing to eat.

With that wonderful long side walk, I would have gone the container route with drip emitters. You could even have made a covered walkway with the tomatoes growing up and over it.

Hope you will continue to update this posting with your progress pictures.

Jan

[dice]

The shredded leaves are good. In late summer to early fall
you can plant a "cover crop", like winter rye. It will fill the bed
with roots and scavenge unused nitrogen left from the summer.
When it flowers in late spring, cut it with a weedeater or hedge
trimmer, and rake off the top growth. If it really has flowered,
it will die in summer. If not quite, you can turn the stubble over
with a shovel.

After you have planted the next spring and everything is growing,
you can pile the cover crop top growth that you cut back on for
summer mulch. (Slows evaporation and suppresses weeds.) It
will break down like straw over the summer.