Two Plants per planting hole?

[Dr_Redwine]

I have a friend that plants 3 plants in the same 2-ft diameter welded wire cage regularly. He wants to plant as many plants as he can, so he crowds 'em.

We have friendly arguments about it, and he sees my tomato plants (one per 2 ft cage) and always talks about how much further along mine look. I believe this is largely due to use of large quantities of compost. There is no way he is slacking off on the care of his plants.

I have put 2 per cage before and they did not seem to grow as well to me. In fact, I had a couple die doing this, but that could have been a coincidence. It wouldn't be the first here at the DrR experimental garden :wink:

This year I'm going with a 3'X5' on-center planting scheme with a single plant per cage...no square foot gardener am I. I intend to mulch the whole area with a thick layer of wheat straw.
DrR

[TomatoDon]

My idea on this is that you get a very bushy plant, which looks like one, so in theory you are getting a plant with two sets of roots. I'll plant mine using a cage, and probably plant them about 8 - 10 inches apart.

This is all just my theory. I'm sure others here know much more about it. Maybe we'll get a lot of collective knowledge on it. I do know that a lot of people in MS plant this way every year, so they must think it works.

What are we gonna call it? Double stem planting? Double root planting? Dual tomato planting? Twin planting?

This is getting to be fun. And I'm suprised at the number and diversity of follow ups on this.

Don

[KCMO_Don]

Duh....

TWOmato !!

[TomatoDon]

I just thought of this. Don't the Asians have something similiar called a tomato ring, in which they plant a few together in a circle? Maybe five foot diameter? Seems I have heard of that somewhere.

A cousin here used a huge cage (before I started) and planted at least three tomatoes in it. That cage must have been four feet in diameter, and he could have planted as many as five, maybe more. I think he had good results. It was sorta like a huge tomato bush when they got big. My beds are four feet wide, and when the plants are big they just sort of blend together, so maybe I'd be better off experimenting with a 4 foot cage and plant 5 or 6. We might come to some interesting conclusions on this if some of us try it and record the results as compared to standard planting.

Anyone remember anything about the Asian tomato ring?

Don

[KCMO_Don]

In all reality I think that "IF" there could be any benefit to this method it would only be from the two stems fusing together, and becoming on large stem / root stock.

Otherwise it's just REALLY over-crowding.

[Tomstrees]

ok - do you guys want to see a picture of what it looks like with 2 palnts per cage with compost, sun, and water ?

This is 2 months after transplant - the 1 big bush is 4 tomato plants on the right !!! lol ~



I have called this picture "Its a Jungle in there" and it was !!!~ Tom

[TomatoDon]

I'm still trying to work this out in my head. Is what in theory going to be that much better in reality? I believe it will.

I think the main consideration here is maximizing productivitiy in a given area. I have a yard big enough to plant 1,000 tomatoes if I wanted to. But I'm using 9 raised beds, and believe me I had better luck with those raised beds and 30 or so plants than I did with 80 in the ground.

The more I think of it the more I think it has a lot of promise. And here is the reason. Think of it like this. Consider a twin planting as just one integrated plant. It has it's own stem or trunk and it's own set of roots to supply each half of the plant. You basically have a plant that has roots and a stem feeding half of itself, and another set for the other half, which should make each half more productive. It's a double root system and double stem feeding this "bush" divided in half.

I've decided I'm going to try it. Was planning to buy Better Boy and Big Boy in packs of six. I was only going to plant three of each. Now, I'm going to plant all six, two to a hole, about 8 - 10 inches apart to give each set of roots a little more room. I know many will disagree with me on this, but I've pulled up a lot of tomatoes when the season is over and am always surprised at how small the root ball actually is. Yes, I know that there were more roots that tore off when I pulled the plant, but still the root balls I saw would typically fit in a two gallon container. It's not the huge root mass I imagined and expected.

Ok, that's my thinking on it for now. Still waiting for Carolyn and Craig and other pros to chip in on it. We might come up with a good system yet. The more I think of it, the better I like it.

Has any one remembered anything about the Asian tomato circle yet? If it exists, those techniqes might help us. I think I'll see if I can find anything about it on the net. If I do, I'll post it.

Don

[KCMO_Don]

One more coincidence... I plant in raised beds too.

I will also try it, but I will likey only try it with 2 plants.
I think I will probably score the two stems, wrap them together, and bury them deep enough to cause them to grow together. .... "Dr FRANKENMATER"

[TomatoDon]

I was right and I found it. It's called the Japanese Tomato Ring, although one web site said it was develped by a posman in SC. Five foot circle made from CRW. It says the postman harvested six hundred tomatoes per single plant. Sounds mighty incredible. And they do it backwards, if I am reading correctly. They plant on the outside of the cage. Anyway, here's that link:

http://jpdurbin.net/recipes/japanese_tomato_ring.htm

Another is:

http://www.urbangardeninghelp.com/highyield.htm

Another is:

http://www.ourgardengang.com/Tomatoes2.htm

That's about all the info I could find on it for now.

Don

[Jonesey1]

The man that told me to plant this way consistently has 8' to 10' foot plants. he told me the old man that told him had the same luck. sounded good to me so i tried it, and i have had the same results as them. before i started planting this way i would get a few tall plants but nothing like i get now. The ones i did get would be done by the time summer rolled around because of the sun. Now they last till frost gets them. I talk to people in this area and they are through with their spring plants and replanting for fall and i still have my original plants and still get tomatoes. some of them even still had tomatoes on them when the got frosted. All the neighbors are amazed. I took pictures in to work they thought i was growing the "weed". :wink:

[TomatoDon]

Jonesey1,

Tell us exactly how you do it. From soil prep to fertilization, sprays, etc.

Don

[Jonesey1]

I till the soil,then i rake it up into rows about 3' apart. each row is 16 ' long.on the rows i space the cages 2'apart. i have a hand auger that i use to dig holes about a foot deep. i put in some all purpose granular ferterlizer. i put in some dirt to cover the ferterlizer, then put the plants in and bury them up to the top set of leaves.(with a mixture of composted manure, topsoil and garden mix) then i put the concrete wire cages around them . When i get every thing in the garden (peppers, squash, okra, radishes and peas) i broad cast the same ferterlizer on top of the soil, i don't do that again the rest of the year. we have black clay soil here and some people complain about it but it looks like the more i work that area the easier it gets. Later i use a miracle grow type ferterlizer, i don't remember the exact name but it is for flowers , it is supposed to encourage more blooms and better flowers.i put it in one of those hose end sprayers then attach a rainbow sprinkler and water like that. i figured more flowers more tomatoes. i maybe wrong, but it made sense to me last year when i did it so i will keep doing it.as far as pests and stuff i put out 1500 lady bugs because i had aphids and after that no more aphids. this year i am putting in a sprinkler system with pop up heads and a timer like you would use on your lawn. at the end of the year i pull all the plants out put them in the burn pile and till it all up again. my friend that told me to put 2-3 plants per cage also told me to put a nice layer of manure on and let it sit during the winter but i haven't done that. i might do it at the end of this year but we will see.

[jwr6404]

I tried 2 plants(black Krim & Black) in a 30 gallon pot with terrible results. May have gotten 5 or 6 tomatos between them. All the other tomatos,including Black Krim, were planted 1 per pot and did very well.

[TomatoDon]

Sorry your results were so bad. I always have serious doubts about black pots, and containers in general. Wooden containers are the best for early crops, but seem to fry the roots in the hot months. Black pots are much worse. I just can't keep up with the watering they need. Like babies, you have to feed them all the time when the weather gets hot. Yours may have been an issue of heat rather than double plantings.

Try it again in a raised beds and compare results.

Don't get me wrong. I can certainly understand your bad luck, because I've had it too in black pots.

Thanks for your input. The more the better.

Don

[Tomstrees]

wow - lots of great info here ... I am amazed that "my greediness" for more maters in smaller gardens has been popular for a while ... maybe I'll give it one more shot ! ~ Tom :wink: