stronger stalks

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I'm trying to think of why I've never seen companion planting used in commercial operations. Is it because the benefits are typically a reduction in insect pests, and a commercial farm will spray heavily anyway?

That's a good question. It is very rare. There are a few commercial organic farms that use it in a limited way, but the only large scale conventional commercial I can think of off the top of my head is hay blends like alfalfa/Timothy and rice planted with Azolla (mosquito fern). Part of it may be just that the intensive nature of companion planting lends itself more to horticulture than to commercial agronomy.

The other possibility is that companion planting doesn't usually lend itself to mechanised harvest.

And of course there has been a bias for years that it is all hocus pocus and not scientifically based. That is changing rapidly though as science finally is getting funded due to the ever growing organic industry. (25 billion dollars a year in USA) So the science behind it is finally starting to catch up.

But my main thought and opinion is that the most important primary reason is that very few if any commercial business models have been developed.

That's why I have announced I will be working on developing an organic permaculture scalable model starting this year. I was hoping to recruit some volunteers at Tomatoville to help me with it, and make it into a "project" like the dwarf project. But so far no volunteers. I guess for at least year one, I am on my own. Wouldn't be the first time I walked out on a limb by myself! I am still very grateful to Tomatoville for the wealth of knowledge and help the members already have provided. Believe it or not, the reason I even joined was just a random search while I was researching on the Internet for my project. I had been ignoring countless blogs and gardening forums, but there was something different here, so I joined. Glad I did!

[Cole_Robbie]

Good luck with the model. Profit is what motivates any business owner, and that includes small farmers. Environmental stewardship is a noble idea, but people will really start to listen when you show them how to make more money.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Good luck with the model. Profit is what motivates any business owner, and that includes small farmers. Environmental stewardship is a noble idea, but people will really start to listen when you show them how to make more money.

Exactly!!!! That's why I believe it is the primary thing!

[dice]

There has been some modest research on companion planting
in Australia:
http://www.nor.com.au/community/orga...t/goodcomp.htm

They appear to be using it where they do mostly for pest mitigation.
The article mentions "tansy", but tansy ragwort is considered a
noxious weed here in Washington:
http://www.nwcb.wa.gov/detail.asp?weed=119

[dice]

PS: A note on wood ash: if you need to add potassium and your
soil pH is between 5 and 6, adding wood ash is a good idea. Raising
the pH some will actually help, in addition to the nutrients that wood
ash provides. If your soil pH is up around 7 or higher, you would
want to use some other source of potassium, because you do not
want the pH to get any higher. Between 6 and 7, you want to be
careful and only add modest amounts of it, checking pH after
a few weeks of watering/rain etc, to make sure that you have
not overdone it. (At too high a pH, you start to get phosphate
lockup problems.)

If you make compost and add it your garden, a compost pile
is a good way to add the potassium in wood ash, because the
composting process brings everything to neutral pH. It will bring
the pH of acidic materials up and the pH of alkaline materials
down.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by dice

There has been some modest research on companion planting
in Australia:
http://www.nor.com.au/community/orga...t/goodcomp.htm

They appear to be using it where they do mostly for pest mitigation.
The article mentions "tansy", but tansy ragwort is considered a
noxious weed here in Washington:
http://www.nwcb.wa.gov/detail.asp?weed=119

Both Tansy (Tanacetum vulgare) and Tansy ragwort (Jacobaea vulgaris) can be toxic under certain conditions. But true Tansy is the beneficial companion and Tansy ragwort is the noxious weed. You shouldn't confuse them.

[dice]

But true Tansy is the beneficial companion and Tansy ragwort is the noxious weed.

Ah (good to know).

[Hotwired]

I'm a bit anal about maintaining Ph at specific levels based on the crop. The difference between 5.5 and 6.5 to me is that my Everbearing strawberries become Neverbearing and I lose thousands of dollars in barter goods. Throwing wood Ash on a garden can be dangerous if you don't know exactly where you are and where you want your Ph to be. I've seen all kinds of nutrient deficiency problems happen because the Ph was too high.

No Tansy Ragwort for me. The "companion" would be an inhaler accompanying me into the garden. Hard to pick tomatoes with your eyes swollen shut.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Hotwired

No Tansy Ragwort for me. The "companion" would be an inhaler accompanying me into the garden. Hard to pick tomatoes with your eyes swollen shut.

Tansy Ragwort is a weed. It ISN'T a companion to anything. It is an unfortunate name similarity, not a plant similarity.

The astors as a group vary widely. Tansy ragwort is no more a tansy than a Sunflower is a Tansy. Even though Sunflowers are a yellow flower in the astor family.

Please don't confuse them. Tansy is the companion plant with many uses.....Tansy ragwort is a poisonous noxious invasive weed.

It would be like not growing Tomatoes because Jimson weed is a poisonous weed and they are both nightshades.

[dice]

So your strawberries like the lower pH (5.5) better?

Here is a guide for adjusting pH down with sulfur:
http://ohioline.osu.edu/agf-fact/0507.html

This page has a chart showing nutrient availability
of several different plant nutrients at different pH
levels:
http://www.extension.org/pages/13064...h-modification

[Hotwired]

Originally Posted by dice

So your strawberries like the lower pH (5.5) better?

Here is a guide for adjusting pH down with sulfur:
http://ohioline.osu.edu/agf-fact/0507.html

This page has a chart showing nutrient availability
of several different plant nutrients at different pH
levels:
http://www.extension.org/pages/13064...h-modification

I have a computerized irrigation system, so I feed a light sulfur solution with the watering cycle periodically as needed. I have several tanks setup with homebrew liquid fertilizers and non-synthetic chemicals, each with emulsion mixers and flow valves, so I can release various mixtures into my soaker lines. I use fast acting sulfur to maintain tight control, and slow acting in the Spring. I have experimented with a wide range of Ph levels from 4.8 to 6.5, and found that a 5.4 Ph is optimum for maximum production, though I know people who swear by 6.0 to 6.5. I have a second bed with 500 Day Neutrals that seems to do best at 5.0, so I'm sure that a multitude of factors affect optimum Ph for a particular crop. I barter strawberries for a huge amount of meats and produce, so I try to squeeze every ounce of production that I can out of my 3500 plants.

[dice]

I have most often heard pH 6.5 as the best average pH for nutrient
uptake by a wide variety of vegetable crops (not including blueberries,
which like a lower soil pH than that).

Soil pH 6 to 7, one probably does not need to adjust pH *for most
crops*. That does not mean that there are not exceptions, like
strawberries and blueberries that like a lower pH than 6.0, and
crops that may be more productive with a pH above 7.0.

edit:
I once ran across a document when I was doing a general browse
for information on xeriscaping that mentioned that plants native
to South Africa often are adapted to alkaline soils (pH above 7.0).
I do not know if that includes any of our well-known garden
vegetables.

[kilroyscarnival]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

And of course marigolds should always be planted with tomatoes no matter what other things you may try. I like the French dwarfs for this.

Companion plant marigolds with all your tomatoes. Always do this.

Hope this all helps.

Scott, I am getting on the marigold bandwagon kind of late - after I've planted out some of my tomatoes. I bought some French dwarf seeds from one of the hydroponics stores (Seeds of Change), and then saw some cheaper Burpee varieties at HD and snapped those up. Two are mixes, one "petite mix", and one is "Jaguar" which isn't so crinkly, and looks more like a pansy in petal style, than the carnation-y typical marigolds.

Think they will all be beneficial? Also started some red basil seeds and some dill. Any thoughts on dill as a companion plant to anything? I may just add some to the bottle tower with the greens otherwise.

Thanks, Ann

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by kilroyscarnival

Scott, I am getting on the marigold bandwagon kind of late - after I've planted out some of my tomatoes. I bought some French dwarf seeds from one of the hydroponics stores (Seeds of Change), and then saw some cheaper Burpee varieties at HD and snapped those up. Two are mixes, one "petite mix", and one is "Jaguar" which isn't so crinkly, and looks more like a pansy in petal style, than the carnation-y typical marigolds.

Think they will all be beneficial? Also started some red basil seeds and some dill. Any thoughts on dill as a companion plant to anything? I may just add some to the bottle tower with the greens otherwise.

Thanks, Ann

Ann,
As far as marigolds go, it is the Tagetes varieties that are beneficial. Calendula varieties may be called Marigolds, but they are similar in name and appearance only. What benefits they may or may not have I really don't know. But they don't have the anti nematode characteristic. Not sure what you bought with "jaguar" But either way it's a flower, so enjoy!

Dill you want to avoid planting in your tomato patch, but it is a companion to Brassicas like cabbage and broccoli, as well as lettuce. It is a "trap crop" type companion. Meaning that certain pests, like aphids spider mites etc. that like cabbages actually like dill even more. So they attack the dill first and avoid the cabbages for a while. For a trap crop like dill to work properly it needs to be somewhat separated from the cabbages etc... to avoid the pests just moving over to your food crop... but close enough for a new invader to choose the dill instead of the cabbages or lettuce. So it needs to be in between rows and or plants but the foliage should NOT be touching.

Next step is to watch your dill closely. If it gets invaded with aphids or something, you can use whatever appropriate pest control is needed there, Like lady bugs or whatever. Dill also attracts beneficial insects that feed on the pests, so be careful there. But at least you have some time before the population gets out of hand in your cabbages or lettuce.

Remember though. NO DILL in your tomatoes or even near them. Dill actually makes pests in your tomatoes worse!

I hope this helps.

PS Instead of dill actually in your bottle towers, maybe plant the BESIDE your towers? This way the foliage doesn't touch?

[zeroma]

Thanks for all the infor on beneficial plants/companion plants. I've always planted French (the stinky kind) marigolds with my tomatoes. We do it at the volunteer garden too. One it brings in pollinators, looks nice, and after the first year, you never need to buy seeds again.

I have about 2 lbs of marigold seeds right now.

We had basil with some of the tomatoes, but now Rosemary will have to be added to the tomatoes as well May as well experiement.

I wonder if lavender is as good a companion plant as rosemary? Sometimes they smell similiar? Anyone know about this? I love lavender plants.