NPR blog on controversy regarding biosolids as compost

[Durgan]

Lead! Don't forget it was only a few years since lead was removed from gasoline. For years lead was spewed from every automobile exhaust contaminating the countryside. It is still there.

[lycomania]

Interesting topic! I personally am not overly paranoid about encountering noxious substances. After all, I am an organic being that survives by filtering out the nasties efficiently.

I do tend to avoid the Asian stuff simply because of the different standards by which they live.

[bughunter99]

The liver and kidneys do not and cannot filter out everything. Our bodies were designed to eliminate naturally occurring toxins. Man-made ones, not so much. It accumulates. Altering our DNA and making us vulnerable to disease.

Vigilance is not the same as paranoia. Those that take measures to limit carcinogenic chemical exposures and exposures to things where they don't even know what the long term risk is yet are going to be better off down the line then the average person that thinks all is A-OK because the FDA/DNR say it is. History has shown us again and again that things are rushed through approval and then once people start getting sick it takes YEARS for things to be pulled.

[Durgan]

Originally Posted by bughunter99

The liver and kidneys do not and cannot filter out everything. Our bodies were designed to eliminate naturally occurring toxins. Man-made ones, not so much. It accumulates. Altering our DNA and making us vulnerable to disease.

Vigilance is not the same as paranoia. Those that take measures to limit carcinogenic chemical exposures and exposures to things where they don't even know what the long term risk is yet are going to be better off down the line then the average person that thinks all is A-OK because the FDA/DNR say it is. History has shown us again and again that things are rushed through approval and then once people start getting sick it takes YEARS for things to be pulled.

DDT, Paris Green

[Cole_Robbie]

A lake near me was contaminated with PCPs from an ammunition factory decades ago. A guy who grew up with my dad spent his life fishing on that lake. He made his meager living selling the fish he caught, and he ate fish for just about every meal. He died of pancreatic cancer at age 52.

[Master_Gardener]

While visiting my local waste water plant, I asked them about metals in their bio-solids. "Since we do not have heavy industry in my town, it's not a problem", they said. HOWEVER, they do not offer it to the public. It is only available to commercial, non-food agriculture; i.e. a sod farm and they provide testing and a chain of custody for every load. That fact alone makes me want to stay away from it.

While reading up on this subject, I read that NY state requires a 3 year ageing period before bio-solids can be used for consumer crops.

I did chat with an Agronomist about it. He said that they used it on golf courses.

Since I have a choice, and I do, I choose not to use it.

[lycomania]

I don't believe that regulations are mostly made based on fact, I think they are based on the superstition and fear of the average layman voter. I tend to ignore any that don't pass my personal smell test. It is something we must all do for ourselves because nobody is passing these laws for your personal benefit.

[ScottinAtlanta]

We have the most sophisticated drug approval process in the world - the world-class Food and Drug Administration - and as a result, American drugs are widely recognized as the safest around. Risk assessment means just that - not a guarantee. A managed risk. Sometimes, risks take a bad bounce. Sometimes, there are mistakes and even corruption.

But overall, the FDA is being quite unfairly maligned here. The drug approval process is probably too slow - not too fast - denying needed drugs to thousands of people for years, which kills people, too. If you have ever had a loved one trying desperately to get into drug trials, you know what I mean. Tradeoffs are part of the regulatory system - there is no zero risk option.

[Master_Gardener]

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

We have the most sophisticated drug approval process in the world - the world-class Food and Drug Administration - and as a result, American drugs are widely recognized as the safest around. Risk assessment means just that - not a guarantee. A managed risk. Sometimes, risks take a bad bounce. Sometimes, there are mistakes and even corruption.

But overall, the FDA is being quite unfairly maligned here. The drug approval process is probably too slow - not too fast - denying needed drugs to thousands of people for years, which kills people, too. If you have ever had a loved one trying desperately to get into drug trials, you know what I mean. Tradeoffs are part of the regulatory system - there is no zero risk option.

What about all the drug recalls? There have been a few. Then there is the issue of death from prescriptions themselves. I wouldn't say we have the safest anything.

I thought I had a problem with a prescription. I asked my pharmacist who told me to contact the company. I contacted the company and also the FDA but never heard back from either of them. 40% of the drugs in the pharmacy are counterfeit. Nobody really cares. Nobody.

[Vespertino]

Does anyone know how biosolids are processed to remove heavy metals and residual pharmaceuticals? And if anyone has links to peer-reviewed science papers (not editorials, or articles, or special interest group pubs) on biosolids and the effects on plants I'd love to read up on that.

[SIP Gro-Tubs]

Originally Posted by Vespertino

Does anyone know how biosolids are processed to remove heavy metals and residual pharmaceuticals? And if anyone has links to peer-reviewed science papers (not editorials, or articles, or special interest group pubs) on biosolids and the effects on plants I'd love to read up on that.

If, they could remove the toxic substances, your water rates would be so high you couldn't afford to flush.

Why its called BioSolids?

60 years ago it was called "Sewage", people didn't like the word so they changed the name to "Waste Water Sludge".

In the not to distance past, people wanted a better name and the companies wanted a better name, so to hide what no one wanted to hear about using sewage for growing.

So the new name is BioSolids, it comes in 2 flavors A or B.


Bio means "New Technology" "Solids" means that the sewage is dried and crumbled.


Same with BioChar, its the new name for Charcoal.


No you won't find much, as to science papers, but there are papers on growing with it, but they don't recommend you using it on your vegetables or other edibles fertilized with it.


Ever hear of a fertilizer called "Milorganite" its been around for years, and I used it back in the early 50's, best greening fertilizer you could find for the buck. But all it was, was dried sewage sludge made in Milwaukee, WS. But back then no one was worried about the Heavy Metals, etc. that was in it.


Terry Layman

[ScottinAtlanta]

"40% of the drugs in the pharmacy are counterfeit."

I sympathize with frustration over drugs in the US, but this statement is not correct. Nor is the idea that US drugs are less safe than those in other countries. Did you know that Canada is moving to faster drug approvals because the number of people dying waiting for new drugs is higher than than the number of people killed because of approval of dangerous drugs? As I said, the tradeoffs between lives are essential to good regulation.

Let's play a little game: If you had in front of you the same drug made in the USA, France, or Japan - which would you choose? I think I know.

[PaulF]

I worked for many years in the wastewater department of a major corn syrup manufacturing facility in the mid-west. We processed around 5 million gallons of industrial waste per day. This waste was 100% corn by-products (the human waste was kept completely separate). From the industrial waste there was a sludge that was reprocessed back to the animal feed portion of the facility that used other by-products of the corn milling process to manufacture high protein animal feed pellets.

The industrial waste sludge was tested hourly for contents to be sure it was safe to be in the food chain. Even though all these safety procedures were in place, in England there was the "mad cow" scare. They thought the disease was contracted through returning "waste" to the feed supply. Even though that was animal waste and probably human waste, we were instructed to immediately stop returning our sludge for use in animal feed.

A case where in the political arena some desk jockey decided that waste is waste is waste without anything to go by but the sound of what something is called rather than what it is. That food grade sludge was then approved to be land applied on farm fields for a while, but then another desk politician decided that too was not in the best interest of the world, so then everything had to be landfilled, buried and covered with soil.

Another case of protecting us from ourselves no matter the reality or the science involved. I would not use human waste on my food supply no matter the compost parameters, but I would consider it on my lawn.

What does all this rambling mean? I don't trust a bureaucrat to tell me what is safe or dangerous. They just need to protect their job. Show me the science first and then I will consider the source if it can be found. Sorry about the Saturday morning ramblings.

[Mischka]

Excellent post, Paul.

Like you, I would never allow human waste anywhere near my garden. Like my grandad used to say, "Never sh!t where you eat, son."

I know the meaning is meant for another scenario, but it also fits this discussion perfectly.

[RebelRidin]

We have a septic with "biosolids". It has only waste from our bathroom as the kitchen is on a seperate system. So nothing much in the way of metals and only our own pharmaceuticals. Still, when it needs to be cleaned I don't put it on my garden. Human stuff has to be handled, but there must be better ways than using it directly on produce plots. Of course I have no reason to believe that the Garden-tone I use is any safer. Who monitors that for safety and how is that safety set? It isn't. Instead a risk assessment has been performed.

The necessity of handling waste (human or animal) creates a climate heavily influences which risks are important, which aren't. and what is suitable for a given use. Living here on the eastern shore I have a little first hand experience observing "necessity is the mother of risk assessment" through the the "chicken litter is poisoning the bay" versus "people have to eat" and "grower's have to make a living" wars. It is not primarily about the science and it is certainly not about safety.