Is there something wrong with my Prue? - Page 2

ScottinAtlanta · February 16, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermitian

That works out to be about the same quantity of Nitrogen as Lycopene used.

Wow, good work, Richard. I had no idea.

gssgarden · February 16, 2014

I my experience with that happening, once with Big Boy, and last year with Cherokee Purple....toss it. It won't get better. It looked at times as if it would rebound, but it never did and it was a waste of a great space in the garden.

A few years ago I posted some pics of it and no one could give me an answer. They ranged from fertilizer issues to assumed accidental herbicide drift. I never did spray herbicides near them and all plants get the same fertilizer. I had no answers.

I don't grow many of the same plant so I decided to keep them and at least get a few out of them. I just had to assume there was an issue with that batch of seed as I have grown these varieties many times before.

I would replace them.

Greg

**carolyn137** · February 16, 2014

Tania's site is back up and I'm posting the link here, rather than adding it to the post I just did at the end of page one:

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Prue

Carolyn

lycopene · February 16, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermitian

Plants need trace amounts of copper and zinc for a number of functions, including nutrient transport and disease resilience. I read a lot of concern here at Tomatoville about virus control. But when I look at the growing medium and nutrient program: of course they're having trouble!

In agriculture, we don't use chemicals (chelated minerals) because we have to -- we do so because we want to. Further, the use of chelated micronutrients is wide-spread in commercial certified organic agriculture (USDA NOP). The majority of people not using them are homeowners pursuing what they believe is "organic" gardening.

I was under the impression that Tomato tone had copper and zinc, at least the old formula said it did http://www.northeastnursery.com/files/tomtone.pdf

But the new formula, which I have doesn't mention that http://www.espoma.com/p_consumer/pdf...Esp_Tomato.pdf. It might still have the micronutrients though.

lycopene · February 16, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Tania's site is back up and I'm posting the link here, rather than adding it to the post I just did at the end of page one:

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Prue

Carolyn

Hi Carolyn, thanks. I've seen the foliage on Tania's site and it looks nothing like the twisty leaves I had so that's why I got concerned. From the pictures, all the leaves are flat and dont curl/twist under.

lycopene · February 16, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssgarden

I my experience with that happening, once with Big Boy, and last year with Cherokee Purple....toss it. It won't get better. It looked at times as if it would rebound, but it never did and it was a waste of a great space in the garden.

A few years ago I posted some pics of it and no one could give me an answer. They ranged from fertilizer issues to assumed accidental herbicide drift. I never did spray herbicides near them and all plants get the same fertilizer. I had no answers.

I don't grow many of the same plant so I decided to keep them and at least get a few out of them. I just had to assume there was an issue with that batch of seed as I have grown these varieties many times before.

I would replace them.
Greg

Wow that's a shame. It seems like your situation was similar to mine. All plants get the same fertilizer and these plants are indoors right now so it can't be herbicide drift. So far the answers have ranged in this thread as well. I'm still hoping there's a chance that Prues just do this sometimes which is what Carolyn is suggesting.

So I think I will plant one of them out to see how it goes this year. I hope that these plants dont end up like your Big Boy and Cherokee Purple.

Did you ever find out if it was the seed source?

**carolyn137** · February 16, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by lycopene

Hi Carolyn, thanks. I've seen the foliage on Tania's site and it looks nothing like the twisty leaves I had so that's why I got concerned. From the pictures, all the leaves are flat and dont curl/twist under.

No, the leaves don't twist and curl in that one picture, agreed, but it's just one picture.

I can relate the following situation for another possible answer.

One year I was growing 8 plants of Martino's Roma b'c someone wanted lots of paste tomatoes for sauce. It became obvious to me that 4 of the plants were stunted with curled leaves while the other four were not.

I attributed those stunted curled leave ones to a virus and pulled them ASAP, Now where I live we didn't have ANY insect transmitted viruses so I don't know what it was. Why not the other four? Infection is a quantitative process, so not enough pathogen to take them down.

The same season I was growing those I had about 300 plants out with maybe 150 varieties and all those plants grew lustily and bore lots of fruits.

What I wanted to show with Tania's link was the narrow droopy leaves shown, but I'm sticking to my story that when I grew Prue the leaves were usually twisted and curled, but I'm wondering a bit b'c the leaves you show on your plant look a lot thicker and also much wider and not droopy as I would expect for Prue.

TIG is the user name for Tom who I know will see this thread if he hasn 't left CT to go south to get away from this lousy weather.

https://www.google.com/search?q=prue...w=1474&bih=523

Several plants with curled twisted foliage. About the 12th row down, third in from the left, look at Craig, aka nctomatomans's picture to get a rough idea of what I'm saying about leaf traits, and as I said, there are others in that gallery that look the same.

Be sure to put your pointer on a picture to be sure it's the right variety b'c sometimes a stray one will creep in, and of course those pictures can be enlarged just by clicking on them

Carolyn

tjg911 · February 16, 2014

maybe too much fertilizer? i don't know but you use more than i would and i use neptune's harvest diluted. your 1st picture doesn't look all that unusual but your 2nd picture, yeah they do look a bit more than normal "prue-ish".

i think you'll be fine. in my years of growing prue it is always been a strong and resilient plant. i've sent seeds all over the country (and the world) and in some parts of the US it doesn't do as well as here, typically in the deep south and sometimes in the UP but most folks don't have problems.

i will say the 1st year i had late blight prue was the last plant to die of about 12 different varieties that year who all got it. about 7/11 i found LB and i started spraying "fish milk" immediately. while i expected all the plants to die immediately they didn't. i lost plants along the way my prue plant produced it's last fruit that ripened and i picked on labor day weekend almost 2 months later. by then there were no flowers, little foliage and the season was close to ending so i pulled it.

prue is not a delicate variety, i suspect they'll do fine.

tom

drew51 · February 16, 2014

My guess it is environmental, too much fan, too dry or too wet. As far as trace elements, I agree you should add them, but most soils already have the trace elements. It would be hard to believe it is too much nitrogen, if anything too little. You used an organic fertilizer, so hence bacteria need to break it down to obtain nitrogen and you did start it in a sterlile medium right? So some time needs to pass while the bacteria work on it. You picked an good product to use as bacteria are in the product. I use soluable for starts as I know exactly when and how much nitrogen. Other organics would not work if bacteria not included. Well eventually they would, maybe 2 weeks later.

**carolyn137** · February 16, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjg911

maybe too much fertilizer? i don't know but you use more than i would and i use neptune's harvest diluted. your 1st picture doesn't look all that unusual but your 2nd picture, yeah they do look a bit more than normal "prue-ish".

i think you'll be fine. in my years of growing prue it is always been a strong and resilient plant. i've sent seeds all over the country (and the world) and in some parts of the US it doesn't do as well as here, typically in the deep south and sometimes in the UP but most folks don't have problems.

i will say the 1st year i had late blight prue was the last plant to die of about 12 different varieties that year who all got it. about 7/11 i found LB and i started spraying "fish milk" immediately. while i expected all the plants to die immediately they didn't. i lost plants along the way my prue plant produced it's last fruit that ripened and i picked on labor day weekend almost 2 months later. by then there were no flowers, little foliage and the season was close to ending so i pulled it.

prue is not a delicate variety, i suspect they'll do fine.

tom

Tom, in my post above I also noted that they didn't look pru-ish, new word for me.

I posted:

What I wanted to show with Tania's link was the narrow droopy leaves shown, but I'm sticking to my story that when I grew Prue the leaves were usually twisted and curled, but I'm wondering a bit b'c the leaves you show on your plant look a lot thicker and also much wider and not droopy as I would expect for Prue.

Carolyn

tjg911 · February 16, 2014

there weren't many photos at tania's site and they are of full grown plants.

ah ha another anomaly? as with the 2 or 3 shaped fruit styles now a new leaf type? just joking but ...

prue the ever evolving tomato (?) that tastes so good you just don't care.

tom

lycopene · February 16, 2014

@ Carolyn- You're such a great source of info and anecdotes. I trust your experience and I see what you mean about the twisty leaves.

As for the leaves being larger and thicker than the Prue leaves shown on Tania's website, I think it might be a proportion thing with the camera. When you look at the plants as a whole like in the second picture, and not just the leaves, the plants are very droopy and the leaves finely-serrated. So in that way they do look Prue-ish. I think I got the right Prue, because the seeds are from a reputable source, but we'll see when a tomato develops.

@Drew51 - Right, I did use a sterile medium. The first thing I thought of is physiological/environmental as well, but then wouldn't environmental factors affect all plants? I don't know, as someone mentioned maybe some cultivars are more sensitive to certain conditions than others.

@ Tom - It is comforting to hear that from your experience the plants are resilient and will pull through, especially since you introduced the variety. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I'm going to plant them out, at least one plant, because I'm curious to see what happens. Even if there's one tomato on the plant that might be worth it

February 16, 2014	#18
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Tania's site is back up and I'm posting the link here, rather than adding it to the post I just did at the end of page one: http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Prue Carolyn __________________ Carolyn

February 16, 2014	#23
tjg911 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: zone 5b northwest connecticut Posts: 2,570	maybe too much fertilizer? i don't know but you use more than i would and i use neptune's harvest diluted. your 1st picture doesn't look all that unusual but your 2nd picture, yeah they do look a bit more than normal "prue-ish". i think you'll be fine. in my years of growing prue it is always been a strong and resilient plant. i've sent seeds all over the country (and the world) and in some parts of the US it doesn't do as well as here, typically in the deep south and sometimes in the UP but most folks don't have problems. i will say the 1st year i had late blight prue was the last plant to die of about 12 different varieties that year who all got it. about 7/11 i found LB and i started spraying "fish milk" immediately. while i expected all the plants to die immediately they didn't. i lost plants along the way my prue plant produced it's last fruit that ripened and i picked on labor day weekend almost 2 months later. by then there were no flowers, little foliage and the season was close to ending so i pulled it. prue is not a delicate variety, i suspect they'll do fine. tom __________________ I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the end of the night He’s gotta be strong And he’s gotta be fast And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light He’s gotta be sure And it’s gotta be soon And he’s gotta be larger than life

February 16, 2014	#26
tjg911 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: zone 5b northwest connecticut Posts: 2,570	there weren't many photos at tania's site and they are of full grown plants. ah ha another anomaly? as with the 2 or 3 shaped fruit styles now a new leaf type? just joking but ... prue the ever evolving tomato (?) that tastes so good you just don't care. tom __________________ I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the end of the night He’s gotta be strong And he’s gotta be fast And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light He’s gotta be sure And it’s gotta be soon And he’s gotta be larger than life

February 16, 2014	#27
lycopene Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 31	@ Carolyn- You're such a great source of info and anecdotes. I trust your experience and I see what you mean about the twisty leaves. As for the leaves being larger and thicker than the Prue leaves shown on Tania's website, I think it might be a proportion thing with the camera. When you look at the plants as a whole like in the second picture, and not just the leaves, the plants are very droopy and the leaves finely-serrated. So in that way they do look Prue-ish. I think I got the right Prue, because the seeds are from a reputable source, but we'll see when a tomato develops. @Drew51 - Right, I did use a sterile medium. The first thing I thought of is physiological/environmental as well, but then wouldn't environmental factors affect all plants? I don't know, as someone mentioned maybe some cultivars are more sensitive to certain conditions than others. @ Tom - It is comforting to hear that from your experience the plants are resilient and will pull through, especially since you introduced the variety. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I'm going to plant them out, at least one plant, because I'm curious to see what happens. Even if there's one tomato on the plant that might be worth it Last edited by lycopene; February 16, 2014 at 11:34 PM.

February 16, 2014	#17
gssgarden Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N.C. Posts: 1,827	I my experience with that happening, once with Big Boy, and last year with Cherokee Purple....toss it. It won't get better. It looked at times as if it would rebound, but it never did and it was a waste of a great space in the garden. A few years ago I posted some pics of it and no one could give me an answer. They ranged from fertilizer issues to assumed accidental herbicide drift. I never did spray herbicides near them and all plants get the same fertilizer. I had no answers. I don't grow many of the same plant so I decided to keep them and at least get a few out of them. I just had to assume there was an issue with that batch of seed as I have grown these varieties many times before. I would replace them. Greg

February 16, 2014	#24
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	My guess it is environmental, too much fan, too dry or too wet. As far as trace elements, I agree you should add them, but most soils already have the trace elements. It would be hard to believe it is too much nitrogen, if anything too little. You used an organic fertilizer, so hence bacteria need to break it down to obtain nitrogen and you did start it in a sterlile medium right? So some time needs to pass while the bacteria work on it. You picked an good product to use as bacteria are in the product. I use soluable for starts as I know exactly when and how much nitrogen. Other organics would not work if bacteria not included. Well eventually they would, maybe 2 weeks later.