I'm done with organic ferts for seedlings

[cippoli]

Just reread your post about the fish smell, try the products offered by Maxi-corp they are in Ill.
I use their product in my basement and never had any Oder of any kind.
I always water my plant from the top never ever tried bottom watering

[Barbee]

I dont use any ferts until I pot up and then I just use MG potting mix cut 50/50 with my seed starter mix. I also water with a dish soap bottle from the top. More than one way to skin a cat I guess

[luigiwu]

Hey barbee, have you gotten a new bag of MG potting mix recently? I'm finding the amount of large barks rather unacceptable... I want to say that the cheapo Vigoro stuff I got at the end of Fall last year was far better...

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Well I guess we're going to find out, because I am sick of smelling like rotten fish. I had tolerated it because I thought it was good fertilizer. It certainly seems popular.

Your not supposed to fertilize yourself with fish hydrolyzate
Fish emulsions smell worse to me.
I never had a problem with the smell after diluting and applying it. The microbes degrade the odor pretty fast.

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

This stuff should be called 'Bag-O-DampnOff:' http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors...88-c-10116.htm It seems like everything I plant in this mix dies. I even lost cabbage plants to damping off with it.

Now you can't blame the Pro-Mix without eliminating other sources that may be the source of whatever pathogen is causing damping off. You can get damping off from spores in your water as well as the air. Your greenhouse itself may be harboring the spores.

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I guess chemical ferts are the large-scale commercial standard because of price? I use so little that I can't tell the difference in cost.

It's always easy to sell something because it's cheap and easy. Of course they never do explain the downside that can happen later on. But they are always ready to sell you other chemicals to try to correct what the others caused.

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

My greenhouse plants get cold at night, into the 30's. Everything seems worse when the weather is colder, and I don't have sunny days. Today is sunny, so the greenhouse temp is in the upper 80's. Maybe it is my cold nights that make damping off so much worse for me.

That's what bothers me, those wildly fluctuation temperatures. Cool and wet conditions select for the pathogens and decrease the biological activity of the good guys. The bad guys are parasites, they aren't interested in your fertilizer for food, they need a living host to survive and reproduce. Cold soil conditions also weakens the plants own biological activity.

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Regarding hydroponic plants, they tend to get pythium in the form of root rot. The solution is easy - just aerate the nutrient solution better. I am hoping using more perlite in my mix can accomplish the same thing.

The Pythium that causes root rot in hydroponics is the same Pythium that causes damping off in soil. The big difference is the Pythium is hydroponics gets a free ride around the reservoir making it easier to find its victim without much resistance by other microbes.

[Barbee]

Originally Posted by luigiwu

Hey barbee, have you gotten a new bag of MG potting mix recently? I'm finding the amount of large barks rather unacceptable... I want to say that the cheapo Vigoro stuff I got at the end of Fall last year was far better...

No I have not bought any MG for this season yet. I will let you know what I think after I try some. FWIW I like a pretty coarse potting up mix. I think the air gets to the roots a little better with the coarse stuff. Large barks I might not care for LoL
I will keep you posted

[lexusnexus]

Large bark pieces are great for my orchids but doesn't sound too good for mater seeds.

Dan

[tjg911]

i didn't read all the posts so...

i have always used promix without using any compost and fertilized with neptune's harvest. i always water from the top not the bottom. i grow everything under shop lights in the basement where it is 48-58 depending on the month. i never have had damping off. my basement is bone dry. my onions have a touch of the blue green algae now and that's not unusual cuz they stay in the same container from seeding on 2/1 to going out in early to mid april, everything else gets transplanted into larger and larger containers.

maybe your greenhouse is too damp or you water too much or use the fertilizer at normal strength, i always use it diluted for young seedlings until they go outside. promix isn't a problem it's sterile.

tom

[Cole_Robbie]

I use two Menard's pro mixes that I like a lot:
http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors...53-c-10116.htm

http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors...01-c-10116.htm

If there is a difference between them, I can't tell it. The other product has compost added to it, which I am almost positive is what's causing me problems.

I realize that it is common to refer to pro-mix as "sterile," but that's just not what the word means. I guess it's catchier than 'non-nutritive.' "Sterile" means the inside of a pressure cooker or autoclave before you open it. As soon as outside air hits anything, it is no longer sterile. The last bag or two I bought from Menard's had been sitting outside all winter, because I start buying it before the new shipment arrives for spring. The bag had mold and algae growing on it. Calling it "sterile" doesn't seem right.

[b54red]

I hate to keep repeating this but as someone who fought damping off for years with little success the simple answer is use Ultrasorb to start your seeds and the problem is solved. I dealt with massive losses due to damping off until I tried using DE that was the subject of a thread by Ray. It took me a little while to figure out the best way to use it but I did. I use egg cartons because the small cells will dry out rather quickly so they do not remain too wet for too long after watering (Bottom watering). I do not leave the cartons in watering trays but rather water them every few days when needed and allow them to dry out a bit in between. This keeps a nice moisture level but not so much as to allow much danger of damping off. This year I used Urban Farms natural Apples and Oranges fertilizer and last year used their Vegetable fertilizer and had no problems with damping off. I do get a green layer of algae on top of the DE sometimes but it doesn't seem to bother the plants as much as it does me. The only real problem it poses is it makes it difficult to tell when the DE is too dry because of the dark green color.

Take an egg carton and cut off the lid with a sharp knife then poke 4 to 5 holes in the individual cells to allow water to get in or out but not large enough to allow the DE to flow out. I use a small wooden skewer or an ice pick. Take the lid and put a small piece of duck tape over the fastener holes and use this for a watering tray if you want. You can write the variety on the closure flap with a Sharpie. Fill the cells with UltraSorb which can be purchased at Auto Zone for around 6 dollars. Set the carton in a watering tray and the DE will become wet in seconds then put seed in and lightly cover with more DE and remove from watering tray. If the DE starts to get light colored again then bottom water again. As soon as the seedlings are up about an inch tall give them a mild dose of fertilizer when you next water and then about once a week until you pot them up into larger containers. Below are some picks of tomato seedlings in the egg cartons with DE. On some you can see the algae but the plants are fine. Since I started doing this method of seeding I have only had a few cases of mild damping off and it was always when I forgot and left a carton in the watering tray overnight or longer.

Bill

[bower]

For seed starting, I always open a fresh bag of potting soil, just to be on the safe side. My materials are strictly organic but I don't have a damping off problem, either. I must admit though, I had a major foliage disease problem one year when I did a top dressing with some bagged compost that had been laying around the shop yard - some had actual hay growing inside the bag - and I don't know what nasty stuff... when they say 'special'... I now beware.

I think you're having trouble because of the glum weather - it amazes me how little water tomato seedlings need when it's cold, not to mention cold and damp too. I never water them unless the soil is dry to the touch. I don't give my tomato seedlings any liquid ferts, I just use a bit of bone meal when I pot them up and that is enough to get them to the transplant stage.

BTW, when I use fish emulsion I often use a little molasses with that, to supply some potassium.. and as a bonus, it also takes away the smell.

[Cole_Robbie]

Thanks for the pics. I looked up the ultrasorb and it is surprisingly inexpensive.

I have a big jug of molasses, but it is hard to believe anything could remove such a foul smell! I will have to try it.

[tqn626]

I did knot know you can grow such large tomatoes in a tiny space.

[PaulF]

It may be sacrilege, but all I have used for the past 15 years is whatever potting mix is cheap and available when it is time to start seeds whether it be Miracle-gro, Schultz or Master Gardener or Bob's Your Uncle Potting Mix. The kind with time release fertilizer seems to work just fine. Not enough to hurt anything but just enough to help plants grow when they need it.

Everything get both top watering if the cells look too dry and bottom watered as the prime method. No extra watering until the soil gets dried out a little. There must be something to the notion of damping off being more prevalent with physical damage to the plant. I do get some DO, but very minimal and usually to the smaller transplants that maybe should not have been transplanted (either no two true leaves or very young and small with leaves). But then with 450 plants a small % of deaths is not unexpected.

[roper2008]

Originally Posted by tjg911

i didn't read all the posts so...

i have always used promix without using any compost and fertilized with neptune's harvest. i always water from the top not the bottom. i grow everything under shop lights in the basement where it is 48-58 depending on the month. i never have had damping off. my basement is bone dry. my onions have a touch of the blue green algae now and that's not unusual cuz they stay in the same container from seeding on 2/1 to going out in early to mid april, everything else gets transplanted into larger and larger containers.

maybe your greenhouse is too damp or you water too much or use the fertilizer at normal strength, i always use it diluted for young seedlings until they go outside. promix isn't a problem it's sterile.

tom

I do the same as you do, except mine are cozy in my den. Now they are in the
sunroom. I do let the soil dry out before watering again, and also use the Neptune's
Fish and Seaweed very diluted for the seedlings, as they get bigger it gets a little
stronger.

[Cole_Robbie]

Regarding algae on the top of the media, someone on another forum told me I was doing something wrong if I had any algae. I didn't want to argue, but I don't see how that is possible. Nutrient + light = algae. There's just no way around that. Even if the media completely dries out between waterings, the algae just picks up where it left off and keeps growing. When I dunk a cell tray to water it, water with nutrient inevitably soaks the top layer. Is there such a thing as a fertilizer with an algaecide in it? I can't find one if there is. I know the algae is largely harmless, but people buying plants want an attractive product. Unless I built overhead misters and sprayed only with chlorinated water, it seems like I'm going to have algae.

Other vendors at my market do use cheap overhead misters. They have great plants, of everything except tomatoes. Their tomato plants tend to be pale, leggy, and come pre-innoculated with a little early blight. But customers usually buy the cheapest, tallest plants they can find. At $1.50 for six plants, quality is not an issue.