Forum area for discussing hybridizing tomatoes in technical terms and information pertinent to trait/variety specific long-term (1+ years) growout projects.
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November 27, 2014 | #16 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: minnesota
Posts: 175
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Frogsleap, have you crossed with your red sub-epidermis tomato with any tomatoes with B, t, or gr.
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November 28, 2014 | #17 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 568
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Quote:
I have found both orange and red sub-epidermis with GWR fruit (gf) and also red sub-epidermis with tangerine fruit. |
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December 15, 2014 | #18 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: minnesota
Posts: 175
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Here is a sister line to the redskin. Funny thing was I only got one tomato from this plant and I took one cutting from it before frost. My friend brought me some tomatoes to look at and I brought out my lone tomato from this plant to show him. He misunderstood my intention and popped it in his mouth, I made him spit it out in my hand and saved as many of the seeds that I could, so I never really saw what the inside looked like. I just picked this one from the cutting. The skin on this one seems to be more orange then red.
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February 21, 2015 | #19 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: minnesota
Posts: 175
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I finally started getting tomatoes on my cutting of the redskin tomato. Even at such a early age they are turning dark green.
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March 19, 2015 | #20 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 76
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I have had a similar experience with a cross between S. pimpinellifolium (PI 422397) and Brandywine. Many of the F2 and later had an extremely bright red color, like red enamel. I expect this was due to red skin plus intense red interior. Other fruit were ridiculously bright pink, and I presume this was due to clear skin plus intense red interior. I wish I had taken photos. I'll be sure to do so this summer.
Other properties of F2 and later generations include high sweetness (like Supersweet 100) and a very strong tomato flavor, more like tomato paste than fresh tomato. I have various lines going in which I'm trying to combine and stabilize these traits. So far, I'm having a frustrating time. The color and the intense taste aren't too hard to fix, but I'm having a lot of trouble holding onto the supersweet trait. If I succeed in getting a stable variety, I'm planning to call it Fire Engine based on the color. |
April 8, 2015 | #21 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: minnesota
Posts: 175
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Picked my first tomato from a cutting I took from this plant last fall. I can't figure out why the inside is so much lighter. Maybe it wasn't as ripe but the outside was dark red. Not sure what the average time to ripen is but it sure seemed to take an extra long time to ripen. I also planted seeds this winter and they are fruiting right now so it will be interesting to see if the next generation continues with the red skin.
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April 9, 2015 | #22 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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nice!
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May 17, 2016 | #23 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: minnesota
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I picked my first cross from redskin today. It was with Sara's Galapagos and I was hoping for a super red tomato. I left the first one extra long to make sure it was ripe and it was an intensely dark orange. So if I am right the orange color inside Redskin must be the Beta Carotene gene. The modifier that blocks the epidermis from being orange must be recessive thus not showing in my F1. The orange color in my F1 means it is B( beta carotene) instead of t ( tangerine) because it shows up in the F1. Does this logic sound correct ?
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May 17, 2016 | #24 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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The red-skin trait with an orange interior sounds like it would produce the intense-dark-orange looking fruit. If the fruit has lycopene-red in the skin, then this suggests the [dominant] Beta-Carotene gene from Sara's-Galapagos isn't active in the skin (either never or due to a recessive blocking gene). The distribution of F2 traits would help clarify the situation.
This is an interesting result. There is little research about how different carotenoid pathway genes are active in different parts of the fruit. (The bicolor trait is probably something similar, but I haven't found much research into it.)
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May 17, 2016 | #25 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: minnesota
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I have already planted some seeds so I should get some F2 results later in the fall. The question is the modifier a single recessive gene or more than one. Also I wonder if it effects all other colors the same ? What would you expect out of the f2 generation ? If it was a single recessive then 25% would have red skin. 75% would carry the beta gene and 25% should have red flesh. I would like to get a red skinned, red flesh tomato but not sure the odds on that or how many I would have to grow out.
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May 17, 2016 | #26 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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I'm really not sure at this point. I was thinking Sara's-Galapagos was an orange variety, but it seems I was thinking of something else.
Is the interior of the F1 similar in color to the images posted above? I ask this because this interior color, with a lesser level of red in the skin should produce something visually dark-orange like you describe for the F1. This would lead to a model of the red-skin being a codominant trait and the paler interior being a dominant trait. Do you have any photos of the ripe fruit? -- I'm waiting for some of of the Red-skin seeds you sent me last year to sprout now. I've finally got enough garden space built at the new house to get back into some of the fun experimental tomato genetics stuff.
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May 18, 2016 | #27 |
Tomatovillian™
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Sara's-Galapagos is a dark red tomato that I was hoping when crossed with the redskin tomato would be a super red tomato. Here is a picture of the f1 . In the previous picture the center is more yellow but it is not fully ripe. With the redskin tomato I noticed the sub epidermis ripens first , turning red giving it the appearance that it is ripe. Then later the epidermis turns from yellow to red and the center ripens. I never did check the skin color of this new f1 but could visibly see it was not red.
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May 18, 2016 | #28 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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Hrmm. Yes, it is definitely not "red". I still wonder if there is lycopene there at a lower level. If there is a codominant effect going on, then I would expect the F2s to be: 50% dark-orange skin, 25% red skin, 25% normal skin.
---- The normal yellow pigment in tomato skin is naringenin chalcone, which is derived from the flavinoid pathway. I've been thinking of researching the genetics of the flavinoid, to see if there are some common regulation steps that might explain redskin [when mutated]. One detail that I've found is that the flavinoid pathway is much less active in the flesh of the fruit compared to the skin (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2788616/). (This might help explain the localization of flavinoid-derived anthocyanins in the Aft/atv tomatoes.) The carotenoid pathway is normally active in the flesh and not the skin... I'm kinda rambling here, as I've been thinking about this topic but don't yet have any real conclusions that might be informative.
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May 21, 2016 | #29 |
Tomatovillian™
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Location: minnesota
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Not sure what is going on. I left a tomato on even longer and after days of being orange it started looking pretty red. I just picked it and took it out in the sun so I could get a true color. The sub epidermis is dark red and the skin looks orange to me. The flesh looks more pink then orange to me so I have no idea what is going on. My f2 plants are already coming up and I have no idea what I am looking for now.
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May 22, 2016 | #30 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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Sounds like real research then. ;-)
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