Bonnie Plants not as good as seed grown?

[kayrobbins]

Fusion, that was great information and timely for me since I planted my tomato seeds yesterday. I was glad to see I am already doing many of the things you recommend. I have not used 6 inch round pots, have not limited the water or subjected them to cool temperatures. I liked this information so much I saved it as a document so I don't have to search for it again. Thank you
for taking the time to share your knowledge.

[ChristinaJo]

Fusion,

I have saved this info as well. It's awesome. Thank you for passing the info on.

[gunrunner]

Hello All

I live in Memphis and try to set out my tomatoes just after good friday. When should I start seedlings myself? Have never tried this how soon do I need to start?

Thanks
Mike

[BigVanVader]

Fusion power I agree with everything you said above, after trial and error I have found all those things to be true. I run my hands over my plants daily and do most of the other things you mention and I hardly ever have any problems.

[JamesL]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Most greenhouse plant growers use overhead watering on their plants. At some point, bright sunshine hits drops of water on the leaves. The drops of water act like magnifying lenses focusing the sun on the leaves and burning small holes causing dead black spots on the leaves. The humid environment is also an invitation to several fungal and bacterial diseases. The worst and most difficult to control are septoria and bacterial spot.

I do not know what large commercial growers spray their plants with. Each year, my greenhouse inspector asks to see what chemicals I use. Each year I tell him that I didn't use any this year because I did not have an outbreak. I credit this with using in-tray watering which eliminates the water sprayed on the leaves paradigm. This does not mean it can't happen to me, but it does reduce the risk substantially.

In my personal garden, I have severe septoria every year. This is usually in July, two months after I stop selling plants out of the greenhouse. I use the disease outbreak as an opportunity to select varieties that are tolerant. So far, I've only found S. Habrochaites LA2175 (highly tolerant) and S. Pimpinillifolium LA0417 (a single plant that was moderately tolerant), but I have found several dozen standard varieties such as Burgundy Traveler and Eva Purple Ball that have low level tolerance.

Growing thick chunky seedlings is relatively easy. One important factor is daily stimulation of the plants. An easy way to do this is with a broom handle brushed both ways across the tops of the plants, but be aware that this can cause bruises on the leaves that can lead to problems later so be gentle. There are disadvantages to using a fan, primarily that it encourages rapid evaporation from the plants which slows growth. What I do most is pick up the trays as I am watering, shaking the tray back and forth a couple of times which seems to satisfy the plants needs to be touched. Yes, I do talk to my plants, it helps me avoid going stir crazy and the plants either don't object or else actually enjoy the sound of my voice. I tried playing music for them a few times. They liked rock, but found country too depressing.

"Thigmatropy is the name for an effect where plants alter their growth habits as a result of being touched. It was first noticed in greenhouses where plants next to the aisles were found to grow sturdier and healthier. The cause was workers walking down the aisle brushing against the plants. You can stimulate thigmatropy by rubbing your hands or a stick across the tops of the plants a couple of times a day."

Temperature is important because plants grow longer cells and elongate stems faster above 70 F. Drop the temperature down to 65F and voila, they grow at just the right rate. However, this is not the entire story. Plants benefit from temperature fluctuations with a daily routine down to about 55 and up to about 85 providing the optimum conditions. So work on growing solanum seedlings at an average of about 65 degrees and you will get slower growing stockier seedlings.

How much space each seedling is given to grow is the last important factor. A tomato plant needs approximately 5 square inches of space for the first 8 weeks of growth. The plant should reach 10 inches tall for most indeterminate or determinate varieties. Dwarf varieties will be about 6 inches tall. At that point, the plant has to be given more space to expand leaves. From 8 weeks to 12 weeks, at least 20 square inches is needed. This requires a 5 inch round cup. (.866*25 = 21.65 sq inches). During this 4 weeks, the plant should reach 18 inches tall. I recommend potting up seedlings at 6 weeks because it prevents the plant getting root-bound.

Here are the gotchas and tips to outperform Bonnie plants by 50%.

It is critical that the plant not get root-bound during early growth. If you leave it in a small container too long, it will trigger development of flower initials and the plant will transition from the early rapid growth phase into the mature reproductive phase too soon. This can reduce the fruiting potential of the plant by up to 50% so DON'T let them get root-bound!

Avoid setting out plants that already have blooms or small fruit. A plant that has switched to reproductive phase will not normally reach maximum productive potential. The objective is to grow a seedling and set it out so that it can go through the juvenile growth phase before setting any fruit. A healthy plant should be nearly 2 feet tall and spread over 1 foot across before it flowers and fruits. Getting a plant successfully through this juvenile growth phase is crucial to overall production.

Bonnie uses high nitrogen fertilizer on their plants to get that deep blue/green color. This stresses the seedlings and puts them out of sync with their natural growth cycle. The healthiest plant to put into the ground won't be blue/green from over fertilization. It should be green to dark green depending on variety. I encourage use of a fertilizer in the range of 18-18-21 to grow seedlings through 8 weeks old. You can use general purpose fertilizer of 15-30-15 but be aware that it is easy to get the plants out of balance with this formula. It takes 1/4 teaspoon of fertilizer to grow 48 seedlings to the 8 inches tall stage. I also have used organic fertilizers when requested. Do NOT over-fertilize!

Deliberately don't water your seedlings at least one time between 4 weeks and 6 weeks old. This stresses the seedling which triggers a tropism to produce more and longer roots in an attempt to get more water. The plants should get dry enough that they begin to wilt. Don't let them go too far, just enough that the top of the plant starts to lean over, then water them well and let them recover. I do this to my seedlings twice which produces the maximum effect on the root system. The root growth effect continues over the life of the plant, it will always have a larger root system than a plant grown without the stress from lack of water. There is one caveat though, doing this to a plant slows growth down by about 10 days. This is probably why Bonnie does not restrict water to their seedlings, they are moving as many seedlings as possible which means they don't have time to lose 10 days growth. Did I mention that this trick can increase fruiting potential by up to 50%?

The last tip I'll give is that tomato plants benefit from brief periods of time below 45 degrees during early growth. If you dig around online you can find some studies that show cold treated tomato plants outproduce seedlings that have been kept warm. It is important to avoid letting them get below 35 degrees even for a brief period. Also, the plant needs several days at high temps to recover from just one night below 45. So use this one with caution, but in the hands of a master, it will give another increase in production potential.

Fantastic info Dar! Thanks for putting it up!

[JamesL]

Originally Posted by gunrunner

Hello All

I live in Memphis and try to set out my tomatoes just after good friday. When should I start seedlings myself? Have never tried this how soon do I need to start?

Thanks
Mike

6 to 8 weeks depending on how much room you have for them and how long you will keep them inside.

[Ed of Somis]

K...I think you are brave to present an "alternative" view of what might be going on with some sold plants. I have seen the Home Depot employees flood their plants with hand-held wands too. This year I will plunge into the seed growing thing....and see how it pans out for me. In the past...I have had pretty good luck with nursery tomato plants (some of them Bonnie). I may find that growing my own seeds is a distinct advantage. I suspect there is some truth to the comments above. Update: Interestingly, K's post was eliminated. I wish he would have left his opinion and his experiences in place. Maybe he felt intimidated by somewhat defending wholesalers of vege plants.

[paulgrow]

I would suggest buying locally grown plants if possible. Many Master Gardener groups grow out plants to sell. MY group grows around 1500 plants each year for our sale. Usually about 30-35 varieties.

[Labradors2]

Kurt,

I bet you are right and people shouldn't blame Bonnie as much as the store that receives their plants.

We have a Canadian Tire store in our area that takes the worst care of plants. They continually let them dry out, and then (sometimes) over-water them. When they are at death's door, they sell them for 50 cents a piece and they're not even worth that! I am sometimes tempted to buy some (a little earlier in the season) just to save them from certain death, but so far I have resisted.

Linda

[biscgolf]

Originally Posted by Labradors2

Kurt,

I bet you are right and people shouldn't blame Bonnie as much as the store that receives their plants.

We have a Canadian Tire store in our area that takes the worst care of plants. They continually let them dry out, and then (sometimes) over-water them. When they are at death's door, they sell them for 50 cents a piece and they're not even worth that! I am sometimes tempted to buy some (a little earlier in the season) just to save them from certain death, but so far I have resisted.

Linda

Local stores didn't spread late blight all over the place a few years back.

Local stores also don't possess the know-how or materials for using growth inhibitors.

In general the idea of purchasing a plant that has travelled hundreds (or thousands) of miles to the point of retail sale is a poor one. There are producer-only farmer's markets virtually everywhere at this point- early in the season prior to having a lot of produce to sell the vendors at these markets will be selling plants that have been grown right alongside the ones they will plant in their own fields. If you do not choose to start your own from seed for one reason or another I would recommend purchasing there.

[Salsacharley]

I would liken buying a tomato plant from a tire store to buying sushi from a gas station.

[Labradors2]

Originally Posted by Salsacharley

I would liken buying a tomato plant from a tire store to buying sushi from a gas station.

True. However, I feel the need to explain that Canadian Tire started out selling car parts, but it grew into selling all sorts of things (like a min-Walmart without the food). Nowadays, they all have garden centers, some of which are really good. We have the largest Cdn Tire in the whole country just 30 minutes away, but the lousy one just happens to be right next door to the grocery store where we shop so I visit a lot. I've found some good buys there on days when I've bought things almost straight off the incoming truck!

Just to make this tomato-related, I discovered Yellow Tumbling Tom's in hanging baskets there last year! I held off buying one, and got seeds to start my own instead!

Linda

[kurt]

[QUOTE=Labradors2;442828]Kurt,

I bet you are right and people shouldn't blame Bonnie as much as the store that receives their plants.

We have a Canadian Tire store in our area that takes the worst care of plants. They continually let them dry out, and then (sometimes) over-water them. When they are at death's door, they sell them for 50 cents a piece and they're not even worth that! I am sometimes tempted to buy some (a little earlier in the season) just to save them from certain death, but so far I have resisted.

Linda[/QUOTE

They started in 1918 out of Alabama.Must be doing something right.

[Ed of Somis]

Bis, You have very strong opinions on this....however, I find it a bit unfair to throw everyone that sells plants...under the bus. I suspect there are many variables that you are not considering. One advantage of living in a very populated area is: there are many, many retail choices. We have local retailers/nurseries that do an excellent job. Some not so much...One of our best nurseries in the county puts out well over 100 different varieties of tomatoes every Spring. Many of those are heirlooms. My best friend has been a wholesale nurseryman for over 50 years. You ought to hear his nightmare stories regarding not only retailers, but also transporters. Much of the time the blame comes back on him....unfairly.

Originally Posted by biscgolf

Local stores didn't spread late blight all over the place a few years back.

Local stores also don't possess the know-how or materials for using growth inhibitors.

In general the idea of purchasing a plant that has travelled hundreds (or thousands) of miles to the point of retail sale is a poor one. There are producer-only farmer's markets virtually everywhere at this point- early in the season prior to having a lot of produce to sell the vendors at these markets will be selling plants that have been grown right alongside the ones they will plant in their own fields. If you do not choose to start your own from seed for one reason or another I would recommend purchasing there.

[biscgolf]

Originally Posted by Ed of Somis

Bis, You have very strong opinions on this....however, I find it a bit unfair to throw everyone that sells plants...under the bus. I suspect there are many variables that you are not considering.

I did preface my statement with the qualifier "in general".