A Reason For Hilling

[Durgan]

This is new pictures to make viewing easier.
http://www.durgan.org/URL/?ZFZLX
http://www.durgan.org/URL/?QHBIN 21 August 2009 How a Potato Plant Grows
There is a great deal of information on the Internet about growing potatoes in tires, boxes and indicating that large quantities of new tubers can be produced with high vertical hilling. The Seattle Times consistently propagates this view and never produces meaningful pictures indicating such.The view propagated is that potatoes grow from branches all along the main stalk. This is utter nonsense, as my pictures indicate. New tubers are formed around the seed potato and always slightly above it. Another point to take into consideration is the vegetation serves the purpose of supplying food to produce the desired tubers. Reducing this surface area by too high hilling must detract from the food producing process. The quantity and quality of potatoes per plant is or prime interest to a home grower. Experience indicates that from any one plant from four to eight pounds of various sized tubers should be produced. I consider anything under four pounds per plant to be an inferior crop.



My potato growing test box was opened today. The pictures speak for themselves. Clearly there is no advantage in carrying out excessive hilling when growing potatoes. The purpose of hilling is to insure the tubers are covered, since light affects potatoes producing a green appearance, which is an indication of solanine, which is harmful if ingested in large quantities. For comparison one Pontiac Red was dug in the same row, which was almost identical to the test box potato in appearance.

[NathanP]

Here we go again...

This is utter nonsense

Not true, though you are correct about the majority of commercial potato lines. They do not have the correct genetics to grow tubers off the stem. They have been bred to grow tubers only in one location, to make mechanical harvesting simple.

Durgan, all your experiment shows, is that the potatoes you tried this with do not have the trait needed. If you would like to retry this with a different variety of potato with this trait, I will see what I can do to have someone in Canada get some to you.

Regardless of this, I would agree with you, that to date, with the majority of varieties of potato, it is fairly conclusive that it is unrealistic to expect a more favorite yield in ANY container, compared to growing a potato in the ground. Perhaps that may someday change with further breeding, and selection in TPS growouts bred for container growth. Growing in the ground will nearly always give you a higher yield, especially if you are amending your soils and fertilizing in a similar method to what Durgan uses.

See these two posts for my documentation on a 35" tall bin with Papa Chonca, a chilean landrace potato.

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=30203&page=3
http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=33584

Video documentation of the reveal is in these video links I uploaded to youtube last year.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

Edit/Addition:

I am growing two different varieties this year, but have not documented them as well. Too busy with other projects.

2013 varieties grown in bins were 'Purple Peruvian' and 'Purple Viking'. PP yield was mediocre, PV yield was terrible. PV set potatoes all in a single location.
2014 varieties grown in bins were "CIP396286-7' and 'Papa Chonca'. Both grew, but yields were lower than when grown in the ground.
2015 varieties currently being grown in bins are 'Doty Todd' and 'Big Dog'

[NathanP]

For further reading on the genetics of cultivated potatoes, see this:

http://www.plantsciences.ucdavis.edu...potsum1rd.html

One interesting thing it notes that pertains to the topic here, is that Solanum tuberosum 'tuberosum', which the vast majority of cultivated potatoes in North America and Europe are descended from, has short stolons vs S. tuberosum 'andigena', which has long stolons. The andigena descended potatoes, as well as S. stenotonum and S. phureja species, all have traits better suited to container growth, than tuberosum.

tuberosum andigena
Long days short days
Less dissected leaves wider leaflets narrower, more numerous leaflets
Arched lvs, set at wider angle to the stem Lvs set at acute angle to stem, more dissected
Shorter stolons Longer stolons
Less pigmentation Often wide array of pigmentation

[Durgan]

"I am growing two different varieties this year, but have not documented them as well. Too busy with other projects."

Apparently every perpetrator of the tree potato growing dogma has the same excuse. Long stolons do not translate into vertical potatoes from what I have observed. Your pictures are not convincing of anything positive.

One would imagine that at least one well documented case of vertical potatoes would appear on the internet. There is not one demonstration of such.

My documentation of how a potato grows is absolutely fool proof. The other potatoes grown in my garden reflect no off stem formation of potatoes with normal hilling.

[Durgan]

Psuedo vertical growing of potatoes reminds me of the craze a few years ago about growing upside-down tomatoes. The stores were even selling planters . Nary a one in sight today.

[NathanP]

My documentation of how a potato grows is absolutely fool proof. The other potatoes grown in my garden reflect no off stem formation of potatoes with normal hilling.

And like I and others have said several times in the past, you are growing the wrong types of potatoes (Solanum tubersom 'tuberosum') for this type of test. You will need to test it with S. phureja, S. stenotonum, or S. tuberosum 'andigena' potatoes. The offer is there if you want to try. I am sure I can find someone in Canada to send you some to try next year. I live in the US and would be unable to send any to you without a lot of red tape and import/export hassles, otherwise I would do so.

[Durgan]

I already did my homework and presented convincing proof of how a potato plant grows.

The perpetrators of the vertical branch growing myth need to present evidence, which regardless of the type of potato simple does not exist IMO.

A Google produces phoney videos not even mentioning that a unicorn variety of potato need be used.

[jon_dear]

If I were interested in growing potatoes in a box, and I am not, but if I were, I'd use more seed pieces. Probably in multiple layers as I filled the box. Possibly even transplanting seed pieces that had a head start in pots. Maybe even topped off with some pull sprouts.

Isn't the idea is to get a box full of potatoes, not how many potatoes one seed piece can produce?


On topic: I start my potatoes in a trench and hill as much as I can to prevent greening.

[AlittleSalt]

jon_dear, Welcome to Tomatoville.

I agree. Growing potatoes in a box is something new-to-me.

I started this thread because I was trying to save potato plants after a bad storm. Hilling them did help keep them growing. We got potatoes when we otherwise wouldn't have without hilling. The potatoes responded well. No, they did not produce extra potatoes, but they produced under way too much rain and storms.

After all, it was, "A Reason For Hilling".

[salix]

Nathan, I admire your ability to make patient and even-handed replies to overly provocative and uninformed posters.

[Durgan]

Originally Posted by salix

Nathan, I admire your ability to make patient and even-handed replies to overly provocative and uninformed posters.

And the amazing ability to cling to completely shattered views, still attempting to defend the indefensible.
Potatoes do not grown new tubers along the stem. REPEAT AFTER ME.

[NathanP]

Potatoes do not grown new tubers along the stem

Yes they do. Many do, just not the ones you have grown, nor most that are commercial varieties. Solanum tuberosum ssp andigena, S. phureja, S. stenotonum and many wild potato species do.

Here's one that likely IS from a commercial variety.



I don't need to keep reposting the other evidence. There are now several threads/posts on this forum detailing photos, videos and other published material from researchers who have detailed these facts.

Including the two threads I linked to yesterday, there are now at least 4 threads where you have tried picking fights over this issue. I do not mind disagreement, nor do I mind showing my shortcomings and lack of knowledge in many areas. This however, is not one of them. There have been numerous people involved in these discussions, including breeders and growers, some having done so for 50+ years, growing more potato varieties and species than can likely be written. The body of evidence is overwhelming to those with open minds. Here are two more of these in addition to those linked to above. I had hoped that you might be open minded enough to give your experiment another try with varieties that are better suited to this. I find it disappointing that you so easily dismiss the offer.

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=33584

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=28185

[Durgan]

Duh.

Durgan

[clkeiper]

Durgan, you are being rude and unwilling to hear about other varieties other than the commercial ones available to most of us in this day and age. Take him up on his offer of seeds and either disprove or prove yours or his experiment, but to keep disagreeing and making rude replies causes us to skip your replies ans dismiss your many years of knowledge of growing in the garden. your replies make you sound like a petty little child. I am sur eyou have much to offer from your many years of work but I am not willing to ask you for being afraid of you making fun or being rude and making me feel stupid. That is not what this is all about. We are here to learn and help on another.

[Durgan]

I proved my premise without equivocation. If you disagree present your proof. The onus is not on me.The present photos on this thread verge on being silly and are basically meaningless. If you cannot see this then it is your preception problem and I take no responsibility or concern about pointing this out. BS is BS wherever it is encountered.