Aspirin water - holey schmoley

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by lrussillo

Here you go--lots of research out there. google "salicylic acid and tomatoes"

http://link.springer.com/article/10....658-013-0333-1
http://ijagcs.com/wp-content/uploads.../1184-1187.pdf
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/...f4d1000000.pdf
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...81942809000709
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18944699
http://www.znaturforsch.com/ac/v59c/s59c0856.pdf

I checked a few of those links.
They are SHADY entities hiding be hind the names like " science..",.."research", etc to sound like they are legitimate organizations..
Those that checked are selling some kind of related products.

Gardeneer

[lrussillo]

The links above are to papers from scientific research studies.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Some gardeners have tendency to liken pests and plants to humans. Foe example,
you dislike hot chili and you think that some bugs , insects, pest will just run away when they
taste that stuff. Hmmm

Aspirin in human body is a blood thinner, among other things. You take it at old age to possibly prevent heart attack. Ok, you think if you feed it to your plants they will will do/feel better.

so it goes on and on.
I will only trust real university type of studies to substantiate things like this. The rest , TO ME, is just old wives tale.YMMV.

Gardeneed

Yes Gardeneer, I'm the one above who said I understood human defense systems, I used to teach them, only as a way of saying that when someone refers to tomato defense systems that I'm not sure what they all are and would have to do a lot of research to find out, and only b'c of the many links I gave that it was not know best as a growth stimulant.

I'm intersted more in mechanisms of tomato defense systems than I am with results of gardeners using aspirin,aka salacylic acid, and heck willow branches are also very high in the latter, known by various indigenous tribes forever for toothaches and the like. So why not natural, organic, homemade willow water?

So we shall see.

Carolyn, who hasn't put this search high on her current priority list for several reasons.

[bughunter99]

Interesting stuff!

However folks before anyone goes out and starts making homemade slurry's please make sure you understand fully what you are working with.

EMERGENCY OVERVIEW Appearance: white. Warning! Contact with skin causes irritation and possible burns, especially if the skin is wet or moist. Light sensitive. Moisture sensitive. May be harmful if swallowed. May cause central nervous system effects. Causes severe eye irritation. May cause reproductive and fetal effects. Causes digestive and respiratory tract irritation.
Target Organs: Kidneys, central nervous system, pancreas.


Potential Health Effects
Eye: Causes severe eye irritation. May result in corneal injury.
Skin: Contact with skin causes irritation and possible burns, especially if the skin is wet or moist. If absorbed, may cause symptoms similar to those for ingestion. May cause skin rash and eruptions.
Ingestion: Causes gastrointestinal irritation with nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. May cause "salicylism"; characterized by headache, dizziness, ringing in the ears, hearing difficulty, visual disturbances, mental confusion, drowsiness, sweating thirst, hyperventilation, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. May be harmful if swallowed. Severe salicylate intoxication may cause central nervous system disturbances such as convulsions and coma, skin eruptions, and alteration in the acid-base balance.
Inhalation: Causes irritation of the mucous membrane and upper respiratory tract.
Chronic: May cause reproductive and fetal effects. Laboratory experiments have resulted in mutagenic effects. May cause salicylism with effects similar to those of skin absorption. May cause damage to the kidneys and pancrease.

[lrussillo]

Springer, Elsevier, and NIH are all respectable scientific publishers. If in fact some are "selling something," that does not negate the valid research.

Somehow, I just don't think that 3/4 of an aspirin dissolved in a gallon of water is anything to worry about in terms of health, it is a very weak solution.

Yes, willow water/tea. There is some discussion out there in the organic growing community on using that--the only issue is at what concentration? Easy to measure concentration with aspirin; willow concentrations can vary even depending on whether young or old twigs or bark are used--I think it is the older that has higher concentrations of salicylic acid. Eventually, I expect we will see OMRI-approved willow concentrate on the market.

I tried using aspirin because I live in the mid-Atlantic and anything that can help with disease is worth trying. Early blossoming was a surprise (and yes, other gardeners in this area agree--it is very early for something like a Cherokee to be putting out blossoms)--but is something that should be of interest to those growing in northern latitudes with abbreviated growing seasons, and the reported tolerance to salinity should be of interest to those in the SW USA and Australia.

I am just putting the information out there for those who are interested.

[macbettz]

Interesting, I usually pick up some spindly plants on clearance and they have some blooms or buds but I usually pinch these off because the plant is not sufficiently developed in size to start fruit production. I doubt these sal acid treated plants are as well.

[lrussillo]

Plants are strong and healthy.

[Gardeneer]

Plants have generally their own defense system.
Why take Aspirin if you don't have a head ache ?

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by lrussillo

Plants are strong and healthy.

I am glad you have been able to find something that will help you and commend you for going the extra mile to grow nice healthy plants.
So many people these days try something and it doesn't work so they give up.
One lady down the street from Utah spent her first summer here and said you cant grow tomatoes in Texas.
Then asked what are those huge plants in your garden.
I told her tomato plants.
Her expression was priceless.

Worth

[kurt]

I agree such small concentrations will not hurt you.In the past I have used a Alka Selzer(basically aspirin) mix to clear up some white fungas type growth on the wifes Desert Roses.Reading the papers above it shows that it does help for plants.I think a"slurry"of any kind will harm you and plants.

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by lrussillo

Springer, Elsevier, and NIH are all respectable scientific publishers. If in fact some are "selling something," that does not negate the valid research.

Somehow, I just don't think that 3/4 of an aspirin dissolved in a gallon of water is anything to worry about in terms of health, it is a very weak solution.

Yes, willow water/tea. There is some discussion out there in the organic growing community on using that--the only issue is at what concentration? Easy to measure concentration with aspirin; willow concentrations can vary even depending on whether young or old twigs or bark are used--I think it is the older that has higher concentrations of salicylic acid. Eventually, I expect we will see OMRI-approved willow concentrate on the market.

I tried using aspirin because I live in the mid-Atlantic and anything that can help with disease is worth trying. Early blossoming was a surprise (and yes, other gardeners in this area agree--it is very early for something like a Cherokee to be putting out blossoms)--but is something that should be of interest to those growing in northern latitudes with abbreviated growing seasons, and the reported tolerance to salinity should be of interest to those in the SW USA and Australia.

I am just putting the information out there for those who are interested.

I'm glad you did "put the information out there" -- very interesting . . .

Reminds me of some information I ran across within recent years about salacylic acid spray producing an encouraging response with respect to canna virus. As I recall, there was research published about possibilities of producing virus free cannas and/or clearing up apparent canna virus by using salicylic acid in various concentrations, with the research conclusions suggesting that the salicylic acid may be stimulating the plant's immune/adaptation/defense system to enable it to effectively combat the virus.

Individual canna growers were trying it with the same attitude it seems to me that you have -- 'hmm, there's some evidence that this may be useful, seems unlikely to do any harm at this low concentration, is not expensive . . . may as well give it a try and see what happens' . . . and reporting, as you did, that it appeared to be beneficial with their plants.

The concentration people were using was 3 aspirin to 4 gallons of water -- same concentration you're using.

The value of anecdotal evidence is often underestimated, I believe. And if a treatment is reported by many to be apparently useful, it nearly always leads to more objectively measured examination. Which is useful, though scientific reports can also be misleading. For example, results will be misleading if work is done or reported by a researcher who believes that "failed to find a significant effect" is the same as "found that no significant effect exists". (Not the same thing at all.)

Of course, anecdotal evidence can go funny places too. When looking (mildly) into evidence about the canna virus, I saw a gardener report along the lines of "Tylenol can cure Canna virus!" The research the individual referenced was about salicylic acid, but clearly, to that gardener, it meant something along the lines of "headache pills can fight the canna virus".

But it does sound as if a mild aspirin spray might stimulate the tomato plants' disease fighting systems and if so that might cause some to be more vigorous and produce earlier -- certainly worth looking into for plants in this area.

Thanks for the thought!

Now, I wonder if aspirin spray would work better if the plants were sprayed only when the moon was full, and then adorned with tiny tin foil hats . . . I planted seven Blue Spruce wearing party hats, once, and they grew great . . .

JLJ

PS -- just to avoid confusion -- the last paragraph is humor, not intended to cast aspersions upon lrussillo's very interesting report -- and the trees wore party hats because they were birthday gifts for my immediate maternal ancestor.

[lrussillo]

Originally Posted by JLJ_

I'm glad you did "put the information out there" -- very interesting . . .

Reminds me of some information I ran across within recent years about salacylic acid spray producing an encouraging response with respect to canna virus. As I recall, there was research published about possibilities of producing virus free cannas and/or clearing up apparent canna virus by using salicylic acid in various concentrations, with the research conclusions suggesting that the salicylic acid may be stimulating the plant's immune/adaptation/defense system to enable it to effectively combat the virus.

Individual canna growers were trying it with the same attitude it seems to me that you have -- 'hmm, there's some evidence that this may be useful, seems unlikely to do any harm at this low concentration, is not expensive . . . may as well give it a try and see what happens' . . . and reporting, as you did, that it appeared to be beneficial with their plants.

The concentration people were using was 3 aspirin to 4 gallons of water -- same concentration you're using.

The value of anecdotal evidence is often underestimated, I believe. And if a treatment is reported by many to be apparently useful, it nearly always leads to more objectively measured examination. Which is useful, though scientific reports can also be misleading. For example, results will be misleading if work is done or reported by a researcher who believes that "failed to find a significant effect" is the same as "found that no significant effect exists". (Not the same thing at all.)

Of course, anecdotal evidence can go funny places too. When looking (mildly) into evidence about the canna virus, I saw a gardener report along the lines of "Tylenol can cure Canna virus!" The research the individual referenced was about salicylic acid, but clearly, to that gardener, it meant something along the lines of "headache pills can fight the canna virus".

But it does sound as if a mild aspirin spray might stimulate the tomato plants' disease fighting systems and if so that might cause some to be more vigorous and produce earlier -- certainly worth looking into for plants in this area.

Thanks for the thought!

Now, I wonder if aspirin spray would work better if the plants were sprayed only when the moon was full, and then adorned with tiny tin foil hats . . . I planted seven Blue Spruce wearing party hats, once, and they grew great . . .

JLJ

PS -- just to avoid confusion -- the last paragraph is humor, not intended to cast aspersions upon lrussillo's very interesting report -- and the trees wore party hats because they were birthday gifts for my immediate maternal ancestor.

Tin hats--I like that. Full moon ... hmmm. Ok. plants were seeded in the dark of the moon (re John Jevins Biodynamic Gardening--although entirely by mistake ). Another interesting thing on powdery mildew--haven't tried this yet--info mostly anecdotal--spraying with a milk and water solution -- I've read from 10 to 40 % -- on a sunny day--apparently a reaction between sunlight and the protein in the milk kills the spores. Definitely will try that on the cucumbers, squash and zinnias--if only it worked on squash vine borers...

[wormgirl]

Interesting thread. Would love to see pictures. It's nice to separate the true from the false and the only way we can tell is by experimenting. Please keep us updated!

[carolyn137]

I had said in an earlier post here that I was most interested in finding out the mechanisms of those defenses before I'd feel comfortable ( last few words my new words) before trying to understand the results of others when there are so many variables out there as to where, when, and on and on.

This thread started with comments about aspirin being a growth stimulant and then went into possible protection from diseases.

I did a Goggle search and used the word tomato as part of the search since this was how the thread started, re tomatoes.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...+tomato+plants

The second link is for a separate source.

http://www.freshplaza.com/article/12...nts-discovered

Carolyn

[loudog]

Isn't salicylic acid a root growth stimulator? more roots = stronger plant and better absorption of trace minerals etc.