Lets try this seed saving thing again

[ContainerTed]

Our water here is chlorinated and I just use it as is. The amount of liquid looks good and the lid is great. If you're saving a lot of seeds, then don't buy jars, but save some of the glass ones from the groceries that have lids -olives, marachino cherries, mayo, baby food, etc. - any jar that can be washed and you can still use the lid. You can put a short piece of Scotch tape on the jar and write the variety name on that with a Sharpie. Remove the tape when that variety is done and put another on with the new name.

Now, (BTW, good picture), at least once a day, pick up that container with your finger tips and give the contents a little swirl. The part of the mixture that is "fungused" will be evenly distributed thruout the mix and the fungus formation will be faster (at least it seems to be for me. I haven't done both side by side yet).

Don't be afraid of the water. It actually makes it easier to clean the seeds when you're ready. Thicker mats of fungus and such are harder to get the seeds out of. This way you'll have some stinky liquid to deal with one time. I go to the sink and start the faucet. Then I open the jar and move it under the stream. When the jar is almost full and about to run over, i dump everything into my strainer. I keep the water running on the seeds in the strainer and watch the white fungus and a lot of the almost dissolved meat of the tomato go down the drain. I use the spray thingie to finish blasting as much of that "flesh" thru the strainer and down the drain. Then it's time to start the rinses where the rest of the debris is rinsed away.

No more stinky fermentation making the indoors "uncomfortable".



EDITED TO INCLUDE THIS PIX AND THIS LINK

Here's a pix of some of the canning lids I reuse to take care of my fermentation processes.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki...g_Fermentation

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by SueCT

I just don't think I can have too many Estler's Mortgage Lifter Seeds, especially since they are not currently commercially available and other people have also contacted me looking for them. They are one of my favorites and I want to make sure I have them forever. Plus, I am currently 0/1, lol. If one batch doesn't do well, maybe the next one will. Once I do this successfully I will bag blossoms in future years. I didn't get out there soon enough but I did buy the bags for next year. It is so late in the season I assume any blossoms currently will never mature. But since I still have seeds from the ones Carolyn sent me, next year I can grow those and my own and make sure they grow true, but only bag and save the ones from her seeds. This year I am still trying to learn to do it correctly. But if they germinate when I test them I can still share them with anyone who has no seeds left and wants to try them knowing they were not bagged.

And the very best fermentation is from Talenti Fudge Brownie Gelato containers!

Sue, I didn't know you had any Estler seeds at all which is why you asked me to send you some seeds, and I did.<G>

Just curious but where did you got those other Estler seeds from?

Whatever, may you end up producing at least a pound of seeds, but if it were me I think I'd keep the saved seeds separate from the ones you already had from the seeds you might get from the ones I sent you. I know where the seeds I sent you came from but I don't know where your other ones came from. And if you trust your other source, then no worries, but if it were me I would still keep them separate and grow them out to see if they give you identical traits.

And if you think I'm going to post here about how you are doing your fermentation, you are totally wrong since you already have lots of folks suggesting what you might consider.

Carolyn

[Cole_Robbie]

If you're worried about your fermented seeds not being good, you can also do a batch with Oxy Clean as a back up. Here is a link to the method:
http://settfest.feldoncentral.com/2009/01/saving-seeds/

[SueCT]

I think you misunderstood something I said, Carolyn. I did not have any more seeds from Mortgage Lifter because last ones I had purchased several years ago were used up last year. I had tried saving seeds them from the last ones I grew before I ran out and before you sent me some and as I expected, I did not do it correctly and none germinated. So that left me with just the ones you sent me. I grew those this year and that is what I am trying to save seeds from now. I would not have any if you had not sent me some and I am very grateful for that. I am afraid of running out again so I only planted a few of the ones you sent me and saved some for later. If I can learn to save them so they germinate reliably I would like to have enough keep myself in stock with seeds in the future and to share if other people are also looking for them. I hope this is clearer now. I can't remember where I purchased the original ones that I ran out of, but in the past I have purchased seeds from Tatiana, Sample Seed Shop, Tomatofest, Tomato Growers Supply and others. I would have to do some research to find out where my first packet came from since it was probably 4 or 5 years ago. But the only ones I have now are the ones you sent me and the ones I am trying to save from the plants I grew out this year from your seeds.

Next year I plan to grow seeds you sent me that I have put aside and the ones I am saving this year from fruit grown with your seed. Does that make sense?

[Hellmanns]

I've had a few varieties sprout at about 4 days of fermentation destroying the seeds. Georgia Streak, was one of them.

[ContainerTed]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

I've had a few varieties sprout at about 4 days of fermentation destroying the seeds. Georgia Streak, was one of them.

I've done several hundred over the last 10 years and have only had one sprout in the fermenting container. Can't remember the variety, but I had a bunch of little "tails".

I also remember one variety where the seeds germinated inside the tomato. It was a case of cut the tomato open and "SURPRISE!!!!!". Can't remember the name of that one either. But, it happens.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by SueCT

I think you misunderstood something I said, Carolyn. I did not have any more seeds from Mortgage Lifter because last ones I had purchased several years ago were used up last year. I had tried saving seeds them from the last ones I grew before I ran out and before you sent me some and as I expected, I did not do it correctly and none germinated. So that left me with just the ones you sent me. I grew those this year and that is what I am trying to save seeds from now. I would not have any if you had not sent me some and I am very grateful for that. I am afraid of running out again so I only planted a few of the ones you sent me and saved some for later. If I can learn to save them so they germinate reliably I would like to have enough keep myself in stock with seeds in the future and to share if other people are also looking for them. I hope this is clearer now. I can't remember where I purchased the original ones that I ran out of, but in the past I have purchased seeds from Tatiana, Sample Seed Shop, Tomatofest, Tomato Growers Supply and others. I would have to do some research to find out where my first packet came from since it was probably 4 or 5 years ago. But the only ones I have now are the ones you sent me and the ones I am trying to save from the plants I grew out this year from your seeds.

Next year I plan to grow seeds you sent me that I have put aside and the ones I am saving this year from fruit grown with your seed. Does that make sense?

I did misunderstand you Sue and thanks for clarifying for me.

It's all good, and onward you go.

Carolyn

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

I've done several hundred over the last 10 years and have only had one sprout in the fermenting container. Can't remember the variety, but I had a bunch of little "tails".

I also remember one variety where the seeds germinated inside the tomato. It was a case of cut the tomato open and "SURPRISE!!!!!". Can't remember the name of that one either. But, it happens.

The little tails happened to Georgia Streak 2 years in a row... and I was even being careful the second year!

[feldon30]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

If you're worried about your fermented seeds not being good, you can also do a batch with Oxy Clean as a back up. Here is a link to the method:
http://settfest.feldoncentral.com/2009/01/saving-seeds/

Thanks for posting this. I'm in the process of redoing my gardening website and the settfest domain was lost due to the notification e-mails going somewhere I wasn't checking them.

I like a seed saving process that takes 30 minutes with no smell, no flies, and no chance of drying out or having a huge mess.

[Father'sDaughter]

Originally Posted by SueCT

I don't have any of those jars, but I just put the lid on this one. Hope this is OK. Any reason I should go out and buy some of those glass ones?



I now have an inch of liquid but it is very watery. Hopefully it will form a fungal mat. Someone in another post thought the chlorinated tap water might inhibit the fungal growth. Is this OK?

I think they would do much better in a Sea Salted Caramel jar. Trust me--use it for your next batch of seeds. 😄😄😄😄

[SueCT]

LOL, I will certainly take that under advisement! I have one backup Raspberry cheesecake that will do in a pinch, too. Have you looked at the ingredients on the Cheesecake gelato? Milk, Sugar, Cream and yup, CHEESECAKE. You gotta love a company that takes a cheesecake and puts it into a pint a of ice cream instead of adding a bunch of stuff to make it taste LIKE cheesecake. Of coarse, I only eat it in the interest growing good tomatoes.

[ginger2778]

I'm liking this thread for so many reasons!

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

If you're worried about your fermented seeds not being good, you can also do a batch with Oxy Clean as a back up. Here is a link to the method:
http://settfest.feldoncentral.com/2009/01/saving-seeds/

I have a problem with the oxidative methods since several of us tried to find out how effective they are, whether OxyClean, Comet, etc, in removing most of the tomato pathogens from the seed coat.

Several of us tried to find data, and we could for other seeds but not tomato seeds . Pathogens for different crops are different and I think it depends on what they are and what might be useful for removal,

OTOH Dr. Helene Dillard, who I have mentioned several times here at Tville was at the USDA station in Geneva, NY and had contracts with either Heinz or Campbells, I can't remember which,documented the degree to which MOST pathogens could be removed from the seed coat by Fermentation, never ALL, since no method I know of except for the very harsh methods of TSP and HCL that some commercial seed producers use, can come close to removing ALL.

But infection is a quantitative process, so removing most pathogens does help in preventing actual disease.

While I'm on a semi rant, the efficacy of using a bleach rinse on processed seeds to remove pathogens has always escaped me as well, Yes, bleach can be and has been used to increase germination of tomato seeds, that I know.

OK, I'm done for now.

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

The little tails happened to Georgia Streak 2 years in a row... and I was even being careful the second year!

Some of us oldsters know that the typical gold/red bicolors, such as Georgia Streak, have very soft flesh so it doesn't surprise me a bit that you saw seed germinating inside.

Not only that, but sometimes the seeds germinate inside and then poke thru the epidermis so you can see little clumps of green on the outside and for some folks seeing that for the first time, they kinda freak out.

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by SueCT

I just don't think I can have too many Estler's Mortgage Lifter Seeds, especially since they are not currently commercially available and other people have also contacted me looking for them. They are one of my favorites and I want to make sure I have them forever. Plus, I am currently 0/1, lol. If one batch doesn't do well, maybe the next one will. Once I do this successfully I will bag blossoms in future years. I didn't get out there soon enough but I did buy the bags for next year. It is so late in the season I assume any blossoms currently will never mature. But since I still have seeds from the ones Carolyn sent me, next year I can grow those and my own and make sure they grow true, but only bag and save the ones from her seeds. This year I am still trying to learn to do it correctly. But if they germinate when I test them I can still share them with anyone who has no seeds left and wants to try them knowing they were not bagged.

And the very best fermentation is from Talenti Fudge Brownie Gelato containers!

Sue, I understand why you want to be a veritable ML Estler factory so please let me share the following with you.

This time you used only ONE fruit to try and save seeds, but each variety does exhibit some degree of genetic heterogeneity so in the future using just one fruit IMO is not the way to go.

The original directions given were to put out 4 like plants in a row and and save seeds from only the two inner ones.

But these days I think it's best to say if you have one plant, save seeds from many fruits on that plant in batch amounts including both small and large ones.

Better still is to have two plants and to save seeds for many fruits form each plant.

I used to do mine in batches,meaning, I would have a half a bushel of fruits from variety X. And I used one pint clear containers. Depending on the variety I could scoop out seeds and tomato debris from several large fruits in one container so it was about half full.More fruits to process, more pints to fill.

Many times I had fermentations going for a single variety and could have up to 5-6 individual pints fermenting at the same time.

And yes, I have saved seeds from a single fruit maybe only two times and that when I HAD only one fruit of something when there was no other place/person that had it.

When I look back at all the years I was growing several hundreds of plants and varieties I don't know how I did it. I was a teacher at the time, so while stuff was still ripening in the tomato field I'd stop by after work, bring my green sneakers and old clothes and do what needed to be done with the pints that were finished and needed processing as well as new pints to set up.

Yes, there are some of us who have been obsessed with growing tomatoes for many decades and there are no formal help groups for that obsession, except for message sites such as this one which, IMO, is THE best one.

Carolyn, who forgot to say that as to a commercial place selling seeds, i didn't check Chuck Wyatt's place, nor Google, nor Tania, but there are several who still SSE list it ( for members only) and if I have enough seeds methinks I should send some to those seed vendors that I usually do and have known for many years. My source of Estler was Neil L whois one of my seed producers and who each year sends me extras he has of varieties he's doing other than mine. Since Chuck Wyatt was the first to ge the seeds from Bob Estler andoff er it athis seedsite, Chuck died in 2002 but someone else took it over, I'm sure many folks have it buthaven't shared it. And just a few years agowhenI was participating at GW Bob's relative waslooking for seeds and both Fusion and Iofferedtosend them toher.