Prune or not...a.k.a. to beat a dead horse

[Labradors2]

Ha ha Worth!

Linda

[NarnianGarden]

Hehee. I'm with you in this 'anti pruning front', but I get funny stares from people who think I am out of my mind for allowing the jungle to grow almost with no restraints..
The reality is, I need all the fruit I can possibly get, and pruning drastically reduces the blooms and thus fruits.
Diseases, yes, I was hit pretty hard last year.. but they did not differentiate between pruned or unpruned. Some of the most vigorous, unpruned plants survived and thrived, while others succumbed, no matter how faithfully I removed the lower foliage.

[PureHarvest]

I don't prune...I select for a single stem

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

I don't prune...I select for a single stem

If you ever grow Galina's you might think other wise.
Seems like right now that is all it wants to have, 'one stem.
All of them are like that.

Container Ted is a cool dude and knows more about tomatoes and farming than many of us will ever know.


Worth

[PureHarvest]

I do not endorse or condemn the following statement.
Just some food for thought.

"Pruning of the lower leaves on tomato plants is necessary to provide better ventilation around the base of the plants, which helps to reduce fungus problems. It also allows the grower to see the fruit as they ripen, making them easier to harvest. These older leaves begin to age and are no longer contributing to the photosynthesis of the plant. As the leaves age, they begin to yellow and turn brown. They can actually begin to attract fungus, which can spread to the healthy leaves.
As a tomato plant grows, the plant will usually produce 6 – 10 true leaves before it produces a cluster of flowers. After the first cluster, the plant usually will produce 3 leaves and another cluster of flowers. In a greenhouse, the plant will usually be opening the 7th cluster of flowers before the fruit on the 1st cluster is ready for harvest. At this point, the plant would have a full load of leaves (approximately 18 – 21 leaves) for proper photosynthesis and fruit development. A grower usually attempts to keep this number of leaves on the plant throughout the season. Many growers will harvest fruit from 20 – 30 clusters during a growing season. When pruning bottom leaves, only 2 – 3 leaves should be removed at one time. Removing more leaves may cause excessive moisture loss that can shock the plant. If more leaves need to be removed, it is best to wait 2 or 3 days to allow time for the first wounds to scab over.
Each flower cluster on a plant usually consists of 4 to 8 flowers. A grower usually pollinates these flowers and then examines the small fruits when they are 1/2″ – 1″ in diameter. Four fruit that appear to be developing #1 quality will be allowed to mature on each cluster. Any extra fruit – or fruit that is misshapen will be removed before the plant wastes energy developing the fruit. A tomato plant is only capable of holding about 28 fruit at any given time. If excess fruit are allowed to set on the early clusters, the plant will abort the fruit from later clusters. This can cause peaks and valleys in production that can cause marketing problems."

So, perhaps a way to view this debate is: outdoor growers should not prune suckers, but indoor growers with a longer season probably need to.

[PureHarvest]

Originally Posted by Worth1

If you ever grow Galina's you might think other wise.
Seems like right now that is all it wants to have, 'one stem.
All of them are like that.

Container Ted is a cool dude and knows more about tomatoes and farming than many of us will ever know.


Worth

Right on. I will be growing out some Beryl Beauty that Ted grew via Heritage Seed Market.

[ContainerTed]

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

Good grief. Am I in a GMO thread?
I was just asking a simple question to clarify the situation. I don't know you or your growing style, so I was asking for info to understand what was done by you and your bro.
Not trying to justify anything nor did I ever say one way was better than the other.
I apologize if you feel I categorized you as someone that is unscientific in your observations by the way I asked the question.

Sorry that my post seemed coarse. For most of the older members, I'm well known as a "NON prune" advocate. I was only trying to bring you up to date on how much this subject has been jerked around on this website and many others. I hope you did not take offense by my direct statements.

I have probably the best soil in this half of the state of Tennessee in which to grow my garden. There are state and national publications that talk to the fertility of the soil here. My garden is located in what was an old pasture for more than 4 decades. It was also used to grow hay for cattle. Anything I plant literally "jumps" out of the ground.

Normally I plant about 4000 square feet. This coming season, I will be planting more than 5000 square feet plus a couple dozen containers and several straw bales.

I'm 71 years old and just finished chemo and radiation for lymphoma. I can assure you that I don't have either the time or inclination to prune. But I respect anyone's right to do their thing the way they see it.

And you're not on a GMO thread. Truth is, I didn't care much for that comment, but your perception is your reality.

To finish this, let me just say that I don't prune. My plants always give me several hundred pounds of tomatoes everytime I keep the cows behind the fence.

Take care and enjoy.

[PureHarvest]

Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
"If you ever grow Galina's you might think other wise.
Seems like right now that is all it wants to have, 'one stem.
All of them are like that."

I was just trying to be light there Worth. I'm not sure what you mean.

[PureHarvest]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

Sorry that my post seemed coarse. For most of the older members, I'm well known as a "NON prune" advocate. I was only trying to bring you up to date on how much this subject has been jerked around on this website and many others. I hope you did not take offense by my direct statements.

I have probably the best soil in this half of the state of Tennessee in which to grow my garden. There are state and national publications that talk to the fertility of the soil here. My garden is located in what was an old pasture for more than 4 decades. It was also used to grow hay for cattle. Anything I plant literally "jumps" out of the ground.

Normally I plant about 4000 square feet. This coming season, I will be planting more than 5000 square feet plus a couple dozen containers and several straw bales.

I'm 71 years old and just finished chemo and radiation for lymphoma. I can assure you that I don't have either the time or inclination to prune. But I respect anyone's right to do their thing the way they see it.

And you're not on a GMO thread. Truth is, I didn't care much for that comment, but your perception is your reality.

To finish this, let me just say that I don't prune. My plants always give me several hundred pounds of tomatoes everytime I keep the cows behind the fence.

Take care and enjoy.

All good Ted. I appreciate you comments.
The GMO comment was because I felt that the topic here was relatively benign compared to what you'd find on a GMO thread. Was not trying to troll you or anything. Just felt like you got mad at me for my comment, which was not meant to be judgmental.

Hopefully we can just chalk it up as a misunderstanding and share a virtual drink and mater at a later date.
Looking forward to trying Beryl Beauty. I've never eaten a GWR.

[ContainerTed]

Pureharvest, let the Beryl Beauty fruits get a really good color change to the amber that normally shows ripeness in Green When Ripe varieties. The neat thing about it is that you can harvest and eat early for a tart taste or wait longer for the amber and get more sweetness in the flavor.

For maximum harvest, don't prune dwarf plants. About a third of the total plant yield will come from those suckers. Simply tie those extra branches up to your staking and let them throw fruit at you all summer long.

[PureHarvest]

Thanks for the tips Ted.
What do you think is your average yield per plant on a dwarf like BB?
Also, do you think some version of the Florida weave would work for the dwarfs? Or is it better to train each sucker using strings or onto a cattle panel to direct growth? Basically, I am wondering if dwarfs can be grown for market (in a greenhouse), and what is the best way to grow/support rows of them in grow bags while trying to get as many as possible into one row?

[ContainerTed]

Because of the "Stalk-like" main stems, dwarfs are best supported by a single main stake or central support. The reason is that the additional stems (suckers) come from all points of the compass from the main stem. If you're tied to something like a cattle panel, your "tie up" may be complicated by having to go across the main plant. I simply put a circle of thick string around the entire plant and secure that to the stake. This keeps the foliage up off the soil, and, after two or three tie-ups, the whole plant and all the fruit have extra support.

But, you can certainly do it your way, because the main thing is to get the plant some extra support for all the branches.

My yield from each plant is one thing, your yield may be something different. I tend to measure my harvest on some varieties in terms of how many seeds I get from each plant. One Beryl Beauty should yield about 1500 good seeds if the fruit are harvested/processed correctly/timely. But, your results may be different.

You indicate that you mght grow them in a "hot house" and, if so, your overhead strings will do well for the different stems. But if you prune off some stems, you may not achieve your goal of production. Most Dwarfs exhibit what a lot of growers would call "Semi-Determinate" traits. Mainly, that they will slow down on plant expansion growth in Mid-Late to Late season and simply work hard on ripening the fruit they have set.

Well, how about that? There's a reason to not prune - production.

Rarely will a dwarf send out an "extra" stem that would exceed the length of the main stem. I haven't seen one yet and I've grown hundreds of them. This is why I simply reach around them and bunch all the branches together and tie that up.

Hope that helps your efforts.

[Father'sDaughter]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

I simply put a circle of thick string around the entire plant and secure that to the stake. This keeps the foliage up off the soil, and, after two or three tie-ups, the whole plant and all the fruit have extra support.

I'm a staker and a pruner by personal choice for all my tomato plants except the dwarfs. I use the exact same technique as Ted with them. All are grown quite successfully in five gallon grow bags. The only problem I had was that the grow bags would fall over when they loaded up with fruit or on windy days. Now I make sure the stake is on the back side of the plants where I can tie it to the garden fence.

[PureHarvest]

Thanks guys. Very helpful.

[Labradors2]

Pure Harvest,

I don't know how many dwarfs you are growing, but this might help.

Last year I grew 6 dwarfs, 2 feet apart. I used large tomato cages which are actually pretty good for the dwarfs. I had to tuck some branches in, and later in the season they grew a bit too tall for the cages, but I didn't really care at that point.

The 2' spacing was a bit tight, and some of them reached out and touched their neighbours (I guess this might have been a pruning opportunity for some) but it worked for me, and meant that I could grow the most dwarfs in the tightest space.

Linda