whats going on with juane flammee

[charley]

that was someones jaune flammee from that thread i was talking about

[GaryStPaul]

Re spelling: I may be among the few who care about such things, but I wish we could get the name of this fine variety right: Jaune Flammée (or, if the acute accent proves daunting, then Jaune Flammee). Carolyn's book has it right (as does Tatiana's website) but, surprisingly, not Craig's. Just my $.02.

Gary

[cloz]

Originally Posted by GaryStPaul

Re spelling: I may be among the few who care about such things, but I wish we could get the name of this fine variety right: Jaune Flammée (or, if the acute accent proves daunting, then Jaune Flammee). Carolyn's book has it right (as does Tatiana's website) but, surprisingly, not Craig's. Just my $.02.

Gary

You must have a hard time reading anything on the internet these days. Grammar and spelling are the pits in just about any article you read. It doesn't bother me anymore as long as I can figure out what is intended. Life is too short to worry about small things.

Cloz

[Labradors2]

Originally Posted by cloz

You must have a hard time reading anything on the internet these days. Grammar and spelling are the pits in just about any article you read. It doesn't bother me anymore as long as I can figure out what is intended. Life is too short to worry about small things.

Cloz

I disagree. I think that people could at least TRY to spell things correctly! It just makes them look ignorant otherwise.

Linda

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by travis

Are you sure it's not Verde Claro that has a yellow pear in its pedigree?

Precisely and I was going to post the same.

Tom was never forthcoming on exactly what went into breeding MOST of the varieties that he did and IMO he could have used his Green Grape in breeding Verde Claro and here's Tania's page on it

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Green_Grape

And here's the page for Verde Claro with typically no background info

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Verde_Claro

He used several ones to breed Green Grape but Tania says the Yellow Pear was not one of them. I think she was in contact with Tom b'c there was a HUGE argument about parentages and Tom was not that helpful.

The true background of JF was never known and never will be until and unless DNA restriction analysis is available as a home kit at a reasonable price.

And if that were true it would be a great way to examine look alikes as it were.

Speaking for me, I don't know enough specific genetics to speak to the issue, but rereading this whole thread I'm seeing that different folks got some different results depending on their seed source, and that's yet another issue.

Carolyn, 76 and still above 6, who has always loved Verde Claro, the original, as one of her best small GWRipes and has always loved both JF and Earl of Edgecombe, with which it has oftened been compared, but they really are different.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Labradors2

I disagree. I think that people could at least TRY to spell things correctly! It just makes them look ignorant otherwise.

Linda

Cloz and Linda, then call me ignorant if you will since there have been times when I spelled a variety and didn't take the time to look it up but usually put (sp?) after it.

The other problem I have and I was just discussing this with Gary in an e-mail, I totally have forgotten the accent marks used for so many of the varieties from France, and absolutely cannot do it for the accent marks used for ones from Poland, The Czech Republic, Slovenia, etc.

Gary and I have known each other for many many years and yes, he will agree that he leans towards being a Francophile, which is why in the past I've sent him the new ones I get from France, and have several new ones from France I'm going to send him.

In return he absolutely loves Roses as well and grows many of them and then sends some to me, the best one being, and I'll write it here since I keep forgetting it and that's Lillian Gibson, and he's given me a lead on a new cold hardy one as well, which we will discuss.

Carolyn, no doubt guilty of being ignorant for some/many? things but certainly not when it comes to great dark bittersweet chocolate.

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by travis

Are you sure it's not Verde Claro that has a yellow pear in its pedigree?

Sand Hill's selection from Jaune Flammee, Rouge Flammee, they describe as "drop shaped" . . . which does at least suggest that potential for a pearish shape may be carried by Jaune Flammee?

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by GaryStPaul

Re spelling: I may be among the few who care about such things, but I wish we could get the name of this fine variety right: Jaune Flammée (or, if the acute accent proves daunting, then Jaune Flammee). Carolyn's book has it right (as does Tatiana's website) but, surprisingly, not Craig's. Just my $.02.

Gary

Gary, looking at replies you received I had to speak up and agree firmly with your post.

I think it's important not to make comments about spelling, grammar, etc in a way that would hurt someone or make someone feel inhibited about posting -- which your post certainly does not -- but I do think we should all try to get variety names right.

Double m double ee isn't hard to remember, but I've responded to posts and spelled it as the poster did . . . sometimes because I didn't want to distress the poster, but also because I wasn't absolutely sure that the double m double e that I'd picked up from Sand Hill was the correct spelling.

Then there are the times I've transposed that a and the u -- usually I catch it but . . .

It's not ignorance, of course, it's just that those senior moments seem to happen more and more often for some reason.

[charley]

Originally Posted by GaryStPaul

Re spelling: I may be among the few who care about such things, but I wish we could get the name of this fine variety right: Jaune Flammée (or, if the acute accent proves daunting, then Jaune Flammee). Carolyn's book has it right (as does Tatiana's website) but, surprisingly, not Craig's. Just my $.02.

Gary

sorry gary when the good lord gave out gifts spelling is one that i did not receive.im not very articulate either.i went back and change the spelling of it in the thred but i caint change it in the title i will do my best not to make the same mistake agian.

[JosephineRose]

If we are going to get technical about the French, a double e with an accent aigu is improper.

Furthermore, if the name translates to "yellow flame", then the correct spelling is flamme, with double m, single e, no accent.

If it is "yellow flamed", again, the accent implies past tense. No extra e is required.

Flammee with an accent (which I can't create on an iPhone, sorry) is the feminine of the past participle. I was always taught an unknown or unspoken noun is always assumed to be masculine.

In addition, sustainable seed co, spells it this way. Five years of French study tells me that is correct.

[travis]

Originally Posted by JLJ_

Sand Hill's selection from Jaune Flammee, Rouge Flammee, they describe as "drop shaped" . . . which does at least suggest that potential for a pearish shape may be carried by Jaune Flammee?

The shape I uniformly got was broader at the shoulder than at the blossom end, and without a hint of a neck. Round shoulders with high round shape in some instances and more globe shaped in the heat of midsummer.

If by Drop Shape, one means gum drop, yes maybe.

The tale tell color is tangerine orange with a red central diaphram between the two seed cells

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by JosephineRose

If we are going to get technical about the French, a double e with an accent aigu is improper.

Furthermore, if the name translates to "yellow flame", then the correct spelling is flamme, with double m, single e, no accent.

If it is "yellow flamed", again, the accent implies past tense. No extra e is required.

Flammee with an accent (which I can't create on an iPhone, sorry) is the feminine of the past participle. I was always taught an unknown or unspoken noun is always assumed to be masculine.

In addition, sustainable seed co, spells it this way. Five years of French study tells me that is correct.

I don't really want to get technical but if you look at my link in post #3 you'll see that Bill got it from Norbert in Hellimer, France.

Norbert had contacted 4 of us and wanted to trade, and we did, and I can tell you that he spelled each one out below the plastic bag that had the seeds.

Whether some accent marks were lost along the way, I don't know, it's possible.

And while Tania said it was a family heirloom, I wonder about that since there were several JF's, another one was Negib and another one was Plisse. And I cannot speak to how Tania listed them, I can only speak to the fact that inmy heirloom tomato book the spelling and accents were correct as Gary noted above.

Another place the accent marks were no doubt lost was in the annual SSE YEarbooks where there were no accent marks regardless of country origin.And that yearbook was and is a major distribution place for those who are members, mostly from the US but also from Spain and Germany and France and many other countries. And MANY seed vendors in many countries are also listed members as well.

Charline in France did seed production for me for several varieties she wanted me to have and here's an example of her writing in French, and I say French since she is also fluent in German and English as well.

http://www.semeur.fr/wiki/index.php?..._de_Versailles

Carolyn

[Gardeneer]

In French if the last letter is "e", it is silent. But when there is an apostrophe after it the "e " is pronounced , like in Resume' , Filamme'.

Filamee ?? with double "e" ? I am not sure.
Why just not call it "Yellow Flame " ?

Gardenee

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

In French if the last letter is "e", it is silent. But when there is an apostrophe after it the "e " is pronounced , like in Resume' , Filamme'.

Filamee ?? with double "e" ? I am not sure.
Why just not call it "Yellow Flame " ?

Gardenee

Better check your own spelling in the above, never heard of Filamme, and especially your user name where your forgot the accent mark.

And why not call it Yellow Flame? Because that's the original name translated to English, and original names are best to be used but not always done which really bothers Tania, for one.

How about Dikaya Roza,aka Wild Rose
How about Sakharnyi Slon, aka Pink Elephant

Repeat examples hundreds of times.

Carolyn

[Gerardo]

My first named one will be Parangaricutirimicuaro. And please note there are no accents in that lovely word.