What are these things?

[JLJ_]

It's interesting that they are helpful to you in regulating your feeding to improve production. Could you describe how you use them? Feed high nitrogen until they appear, then back off the nitrogen? Or what?

[Labradors2]

It's a very odd looking plant that doesn't have the usual suckers where the leaflet emerges from the stem. Instead the suckers seem to emerge from a different spot on the main stem!

Linda

[Hellmanns]

Thanks to all who have posted. I really want to know what the structures are called, I have noticed them for years, but never could find the answer. They aren't suckers, they are like a little hand with fuzzy fingers.

I have learned with this variety, Big Beef, a tremendous, high quality crop can be achieved by monitoring these things. I try to keep them in check until the plants have set fruits in three or four clusters, then feeding N and K until these develop, then feeding the same amount into harvest with high soil moisture levels.

I have posted this pic of Big Beef in my tunnel before, and I considered that to have been a great crop back in 2009. But, when I say tremendous crop, I mean tremendous! A high percentage of the fruit will become oblong, instead of round, and will size up to around 2lbs. or better and be almost solid juicy flesh. My customers really enjoy them and grab the big oblong fruit on sight.

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

. . . I have learned with this variety, Big Beef, a tremendous, high quality crop can be achieved by monitoring these things. I try to keep them in check until the plants have set fruits in three or four clusters, then feeding N and K until these develop, then feeding the same amount into harvest with high soil moisture levels . . .

I'm really interested in the improved productivity you've found, especially as Big Beef just hasn't done well for me when other varieties thrive. I keep trying it as so many rave over it, perhaps something you're doing would help, if I understood it.

What, specifically, are you doing when you "try to keep them in check"

Then what amount and type of N and K do you supply after 1st clusters until these develop?

Then what is phase 3 -- same N and K as phase 2 but with increased moisture?

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by JLJ_

I'm really interested in the improved productivity you've found, especially as Big Beef just hasn't done well for me when other varieties thrive. I keep trying it as so many rave over it, perhaps something you're doing would help, if I understood it.

What, specifically, are you doing when you "try to keep them in check"

Then what amount and type of N and K do you supply after 1st clusters until these develop?

Then what is phase 3 -- same N and K as phase 2 but with increased moisture?

By keeping them in check, I mean not overly fertilizing until there is enough fruit set to use the abundance of nutes. I still keep the young plants healthy, though. I like to keep the plants as wide, or wider than tall up until they are 2 feet tall or so. I use the width, vs height as a health indicator. And adjust nutes as needed to keep them as described. I've had young plants that were 27" wide from leaf tip to leaf tip, but were only 24" tall. Here is a picture of the way I like to have my plants look at about the time of first fruit set. The bucket is 13" tall, and 12" wide. I also prune to 2 main stems, and ANYTIME a sucker doesn't snap like glass when pruning, more moisture is needed ASAP!


The fertilizer I use to feed with is mainly potassium nitrate, an a little magnesium sulfate after putting down a planting base of 20-20-20 to get the plants off to a good start. Early on growth can be controlled with water, as the plants can't use the base fertilizer without adequate moisture.

As I talked about earlier, my friend started feeding high rates before fruit set and these leaf structures turned into suckers and complete inflorescences growing from a leaf rib! He had scary looking plants at the expense of fruit.

[Shapshftr]

They are called stipules/stipels. Where yours are located makes them stipels:

"Stipule-like outgrowths may also be found at the base of leaflets on a compound leaf, in addition to stipules at the base of the petiole (rachis). Leaflet stipules are termed stipels or, less commonly, secondary stipules."

http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/bot...ture/stipules/

They are not fully understood, but are believed to have some function:

http://tinyurl.com/zb93lto

Botanists use them to determine the exact family a particular plant belongs in. I think they are a mutation of plants that once had thorns. It's interesting that it appears in Big Beef, a hybrid, but not in any heirlooms that I know of. My guess is it's a product of hybridization. My BB also has extra little leaflets that grow along the leaf stems, as in figure 4, image D on this page:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3014546/

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by Shapshftr

They are called stipules/stipels. Where yours are located makes them stipels:

"Stipule-like outgrowths may also be found at the base of leaflets on a compound leaf, in addition to stipules at the base of the petiole (rachis). Leaflet stipules are termed stipels or, less commonly, secondary stipules."

http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/bot...ture/stipules/

They are not fully understood, but are believed to have some function:

http://tinyurl.com/zb93lto

Botanists use them to determine the exact family a particular plant belongs in. I think they are a mutation of plants that once had thorns. It's interesting that it appears in Big Beef, a hybrid, but not in any heirlooms that I know of. My guess is it's a product of hybridization. My BB also has extra little leaflets that grow along the leaf stems, as in figure 4, image D on this page:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3014546/

Thanks, a lot! I've been trying to find that out for a long, long time!
It was a long time ago, but I would give anything to of had some pictures of the suckers and blooms that the stipules turned into on my friends plants years back.

[Shapshftr]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

Thanks, a lot! I've been trying to find that out for a long, long time!
It was a long time ago, but I would give anything to of had some pictures of the suckers and blooms that the stipules turned into on my friends plants years back.

You're welcome.

What did they look like? Now you've piqued my curiosity. Did they grow somew mutant vines?

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by Shapshftr

You're welcome.

What did they look like? Now you've piqued my curiosity. Did they grow somew mutant vines?

Somewhat very healthy vines. Thick stems, large leaves, and stipules all along the leaf. Some of the stipules developed in to complete inflorescences, and other stipules became complete growing plants! It looked weird as early blight set in, leaves were dead and dying, but the blooms, and plants that emerged from the stipules kept growing for quite some time..

[Shapshftr]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

Somewhat very healthy vines. Thick stems, large leaves, and stipules all along the leaf. Some of the stipules developed in to complete inflorescences, and other stipules became complete growing plants! It looked weird as early blight set in, leaves were dead and dying, but the blooms, and plants that emerged from the stipules kept growing for quite some time..

Very strange. Mine don't show either one of the two. Maybe it's from excess nitrogen? I have not given mine any more nitrogen since planting, and they are big bushy plants with fruit set now. They would have had fruit sooner but I pinched off the blooms when the plants were still small. I wait until the plants are actively growing after transplanting, and at least 2 ft tall before I let blossoms stay. Are you a one vine pruner? I let all the suckers grow on mine, due to my special style of trellis that supports all the vines and fruit. If you do prune to a single vine, then maybe that's the cause, with this particular cultivar.

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by Shapshftr

Very strange. Mine don't show either one of the two. Maybe it's from excess nitrogen? I have not given mine any more nitrogen since planting, and they are big bushy plants with fruit set now. They would have had fruit sooner but I pinched off the blooms when the plants were still small. I wait until the plants are actively growing after transplanting, and at least 2 ft tall before I let blossoms stay. Are you a one vine pruner? I let all the suckers grow on mine, due to my special style of trellis that supports all the vines and fruit. If you do prune to a single vine, then maybe that's the cause, with this particular cultivar.

Historically, I pruned to two leaders until about the 4th or 5th cluster, then let them go wild. This is my first year with limited pruning on Big Beef.

[Chaerimasu]

My black krim in a container have those outgrowth as well!

[Shapshftr]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

Historically, I pruned to two leaders until about the 4th or 5th cluster, then let them go wild. This is my first year with limited pruning on Big Beef.

Ok. Maybe it's because you prune all the suckers til fruit set. I only prune the lower leaves to keep them off the ground, but allow all the suckers to vine out. Mine go wild from the start. Pruning trees and shrubs stimulates them to bush out more. I believe it's a survival mechanism to make sure the plant continues to grow and reproduce. They're freaking out from all the pruning so they're trying to stay alive!