Preparing for Winter

[greenthumbomaha]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Pull them,put them in bags for refuse pickup,and then in the Spring,if growing in containers and not replacing all that's in there,scoop off the top few inches and replace with new mix since foliar pathogens,both bacterial and fungal,can contaminate the mix surface.

If growing inground,pull and then turn over the area about 6 inches down,to bury the possible pathogens.

Carolyn

Carolyn, I'm curious why you suggested doing the replenishment and tilling in spring. This fall I was going to cover the beds with leaves and be good to go in spring. Any reason not to get rid of the yucky top inches and add compost in fall?

- Lisa

[brownrexx]

I also remove all tomato plant debris in the fall and dump it in the nearby field to compost there.

My garden is covered with straw mulch all year so I also rake and remove that in the area where my tomatoes were growing. I have very little trouble with foliar diseases except for Late Blight which arrives on the wind in years when we have a cool, damp August. I live in PA which gets a significant amount of freezing temperatures and it does not kill Early blight Spores nor do they need a host to survive. They just become dormant until conditions are right for growth. I am sure that some other pathogens are the same. I know that Late Blight can survive in tomato debris and old potatoes in the compost pile so for that reason I never allow volunteer potatoes or tomatoes to grow in my garden.

I till my entire (non raised) garden in the Fall and then cover it with a fresh layer of straw about 4 inches thick. This insulates the soil and protects it from freeze/thaw cycles and it also keeps the soil warmer longer into the Fall/winter and allows the earthworms to remain closer to the surface and work on that debris that I have tilled under.

I prefer Fall tilling because the soil says cold too long in the Spring for me to till it before it is time to plant my peas.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by greenthumbomaha

Carolyn, I'm curious why you suggested doing the replenishment and tilling in spring. This fall I was going to cover the beds with leaves and be good to go in spring. Any reason not to get rid of the yucky top inches and add compost in fall?

- Lisa

I can only speak for myself and what was best for me.

When I was growing many hundreds of plants and varieties at the old farm, Charlie,my farmer friend would plow everything deeply in the Fall,sow winter rye,come back in the Spring, plow that under and then prepare my field for me.

Where I am now most of my tomato plants are in containers or growbags,it freezes here,so thing will grow in the winter,but since they are above ground they warm up faster in the Spring and it's much easier for Freda to do what I suggested above.

So whatever works best for each person,just do it.

Carolyn

[amideutch]

Normally I would be doing the same thing but not this year. It's supposed to be in the low 90's today.

Ami

[Barbee]

I cut the plants off at the ground and dispose of the foliage. Then till the roots under

[ContainerTed]

I cut them down and after they dry well, I burn the whole garden. After a few days or, at least a couple of rain showers, I till it under for the winter. Then, in the spring, I till again and at planting time till yet again with my Yardmachine tiller. This year, I'll be adding manure and lime at tilling times in the fall and spring.

[GrowingCoastal]

I am thinking about spraying tomato growing areas with bleach after clean-up is done . Is that worth doing? Will bleach kill the spores of mildew and blight?

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by GrowingCoastal

I am thinking about spraying tomato growing areas with bleach after clean-up is done . Is that worth doing? Will bleach kill the spores of mildew and blight?

Sounds like a good idea to me , if you had mold issue.
But more important thing (IMO) would be to fungicide from the day one of plant out. And do it on a regular schedule .

[Poohtoo8]

Thank you ALL for the informative responses. We live on a 63 acre farm here in N. Kentucky so I AM able to burn the plants which I plan on doing. We also til our garden both Fall and Spring. I intend to use one suggestion and put down weed mats next year, even though there is a bit of expense involved, I'm sick of pulling weeds! I'm so enjoying all this gardening since I'm originally a city girl who married a farmer. He is amazed by the size and quality of tomatoes I've been able to grow, even my BIL (another farmer) is asking my advice........LOL. See you all next Spring!

[Gardeneer]

Let us just assume that you had some foliage disease issue.
Where did the fungi come form in the first place?
Now you take all the expired dead vines to somewhere and just pile the up, cover them with some soil and let it rot /decompose.
Now let us assume that there were fungi that will overwinter and survive.
How then those fungi will get up and come back and make your plants sick the next season ?.
We know that those fungi guys need to become air borne and need to get suspended in the air and travel. In other words they have no wings or any any mobility device of their own.
Just my thoughts.

[bower]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Let us just assume that you had some foliage disease issue.
Where did the fungi come form in the first place?
Now you take all the expired dead vines to somewhere and just pile the up, cover them with some soil and let it rot /decompose.
Now let us assume that there were fungi that will overwinter and survive.
How then those fungi will get up and come back and make your plants sick the next season ?.
We know that those fungi guys need to become air borne and need to get suspended in the air and travel. In other words they have no wings or any any mobility device of their own.
Just my thoughts.

Although the majority in this thread have spoken in favor of burning their crop residues, IMO it is simply an old bad habit that has been fostered by decades of chemical agroeconomics, where loss of soil nutrients is of no consequence because they are added yearly as chemical ferts.

No offense to the burnin believers but I just wanted to add a comment for the broader readership, who may conclude that burning is the best practice or the only safe choice for their garden.

Burning the residues is an easy answer to concerns about pathogens, because of course it destroys them. Maybe it was a good enough answer decades ago, but it is not a sustainable practice in the context of our global environment in the present. Not only we're sending the carbon from crop residue directly into the environment by burning, the nitrogen in a well fertilized crop makes a direct contribution to greenhouse gases and warming as well. Also, if pesticides or herbicides were used, agricultural waste burning produces high levels of dioxins, which are quite toxic to you and persistent in the environment.

In contrast when you compost residues, you sequester carbon and make other nutrient residues available to plants. If the concern about composting is that it is not hot enough to kill spores, perhaps we need to focus on developing better composting techniques.

There is lots to read in a google of "tomato crop residue management sustainability"
Couldn't grab the pdf links, but near the top I found that large canning enterprises (Thomas Canning, Unilever) recommend the incorporation of tomato residues into the soil. Not burning! Rotation is expected, and other solanaceous crops advised to be avoided in rotation with tomatoes, so there's time when the pathogens have no host material. No mention of any other control necessary to destroy spores.

But seriously. Even your garden compost is a good bit hotter than just residue tilled into the ground. If you leave the compost for a year or even two years before using on tomatoes, it should be as good as the management by rotation recommended by these serious tomato enterprises.
As I mentioned before, I found the same recommendation for growers of garlic and onions, not to compost the residues but to burn them. That is on reputable IPM sites. I just can't accept this answer personally, and will have to look further to find a management strategy. So much crop burning, when will it end! Not to say I never burned anything, and like others here I have the liberty to burn what I like in fall and winter, and plenty of inviting stuff to burn here in the woods. And do so, from time to time.

Here is some further food for thought, for those interested.
Crop Residues: Agriculture's largest harvest http://bioscience.oxfordjournals.org.../49/4/299.full

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Let us just assume that you had some foliage disease issue.
Where did the fungi come form in the first place?
Now you take all the expired dead vines to somewhere and just pile the up, cover them with some soil and let it rot /decompose.
Now let us assume that there were fungi that will overwinter and survive.
How then those fungi will get up and come back and make your plants sick the next season ?.
We know that those fungi guys need to become air borne and need to get suspended in the air and travel. In other words they have no wings or any any mobility device of their own.
Just my thoughts.

You speak of foliage disease and then post only about fungal,not bacterial,not viral,etc.,so
I'll speak only about fungal..

And that means the two most common fungal foliage diseases world-wide of Early Blight(Alternaria solani) and Septoria Leaf Spot.

All NEW infections with these are spread by wind and embedded in raindrops,so NEW infections are found at the top of the seedlings.

If the infections are allowed to proceed,then spores can drop off to the ground or whatever, and not prevented from doing so, then when it rains,or irrigation is used,the non buried spores can, by splashback,now infect the lower foliage and proceed upwards. Either in that season or in subsequent seasons.

Carolyn

[zeroma]

Carolyn, how long do these fungal foliage diseases live or better, are viable in the soil, how many seasons?

Zeroma

[joseph]

For as long as anyone now living can remember, my family has tilled tomato vines back into the soil where they grew. It's quick and easy, and doesn't add extra labor to field clean up. It's how the large farms cleaned up their tomato fields decades ago when our valley was growing tomatoes for the Campbell's Soup Company.

I welcome pathogens into my garden, because that allows me to save seeds from those plants that are more resistant to the pathogens and animals commonly found in this area.

[Labradors2]

Great post Bower. I agree with everything you said.

Guess I am lucky to have a lot of room here, and I just pull and toss the vines to decompose in a pile far away from the veggie garden.

I was dismayed to read about not being able to compost garlic stalks (nice carbon matter) so they too are in a pile, adding nutrients to the soil.

When I have obvious disease, I send my vines away in the large green compost bucket that is picked up weekly and sent to a facility that composts under high heat. (They mostly get our dandelion roots and other noxious weeds because our good compostable material is used here.)

I do not till the soil because I do not want to disturb all the worms and microbes.

Linda