Size of plant?

[Spike2]

Size doesn't matter . . .

[Black Krim]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

There is no fixed numbers on plant height. For example they say "... it get 5 to 8 ft tall ..". It is like the weather forecast : "... there is a 40% chance of rain..." . Haha. what does that mean ? Will it rain or what ?
Same story about tomato plat size. There is a big difference between 5 ft and 8ft.
You want your plant short ? Top it early on and let it grow bushy with multiple stems, suckers and all.
JMO

40% chance of rain is useless in my book!! Especially as most forecasters are very good at estimating the number of inches and when the storm is due. As a weather watcher ( have farm animals) I have learned which forecasters to listen to and to adjust the timing relative to the location of the TV station.

Figured many plants will alter height etc in a given plot, just needed a comparison in a side by side situation to grasp the tendencies of the plant.

Grew dwarf sugar snap peas in two gardens. Planted different times of the year as well, got 4 different heights. The pkg said 2 foot vines--- only one planting close to this and then the vines were closer to 2.5 feet and yanked over the support.

[Black Krim]

Originally Posted by Spike2

Size doesn't matter . . .

For some of us it does......

[Black Krim]

Originally Posted by Sydney Grower

yes, we all grow in different ways which affect plant heights significantly on indeterminate plants. I single stem my plants on hanging strings and lower them as they reach my 8 foot top bar. By the end of the season the individual plant can be 10-15 feet tall/long. Others who grow multiple stems get more width and plants could be 3-4 feet wide but only 4 feet tall (maybe less).

I would guess that with indeterminate plants, the method of growing is going to affect plant height much more than the variety. However I will happily defer to those around here who have more experience than me on this issue

Would like to know the inherent tendencies so I can plan where it should live and how much time it will need. And which type of caging, too.

[Black Krim]

Originally Posted by Ricky Shaw

I'm with Sydney, if it's an indeterminate, you can force it vertical. I'm interested in how much is possible with some of the Russian varieties with strong determinate tendencies. Malachite Box had a tendency to bush for me and this year I'm taking it to one-stem.

Anyone grow Malachite Box, Moskovic, Paul Robeson, or similar Russian's, to one-stem or two-stem and can share their observations?

Hope someone can answer your question--- it definely not me, lol.

Without knowing how a plant normally behaves and a method to contain it, I get a sea of vines blocking walkways.... Trying to do better in 2017.

[AlittleSalt]

Originally Posted by Black Krim

THANK YOU

I do understand, or I think I do, lol, that Determinants are types which stop putting out flowers and the height of the plant ceases growing. ANd the Indeterminants are when the plants keeps growing height wise and keeps putting out flowers. HOWEVER, apparently these rules are made to be broken!!! or so it seems.


Then to muddy sizes further, I'm betting some indeterminants are smaller than some determinants.

dwarf---bet it is a gene that acts on the plant whether I or D, which is why both can have this.

Then throw in the Semi Determinates like Bradley

[Black Krim]

Originally Posted by KarenO

Choices regarding method of pruning are a factor but the main limiting factor to the size and growth of tomatoes grown outdoors is disease and temperature. An indeterminate plant will keep growing indefinitely until stopped by disease pressures or frost or in the case of desert and tropical climates, excessive heat.
You could find out the average size of determinate tomatoes but for indeterminates growth habit is usually described as large, vigourous, small, wispy etc rather than in terms of height. Somebody in Florida might be able to grow variety to 10 feet where 5-6 feet would be the norm for the same variety in a shorter season simply for lack of time before frost.

KarenO

Thanks KarenO!!

Totally agree,but needed a starting point. I do try to pay attention to those that post info and are in my generally growing area to get a clue.

I liked the effects of pruning off the lower branches and letting the air flow thru better, and will strive again to accomplish this. Have boys that like to get their hands green. lol

Having the right support seems to be key to success.... when it comes to axes, stakes and hammers, my boys push me out of the way!!!

I really need to limit the number of tomato VINES for 2017. Not likely to happen.

[Black Krim]

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

Then throw in the Semi Determinates like Bradley

OMG, I read the section of thread that delved into this and my head was spinning trying to follow AND pick up the lingo at the same time. Semi I versus semi-D was the "discussion".......OVER MY HEAD!! lol

Bradley did sound like one I would like to try sooner rather than later!!! Even if it doesnt want to play by the rules.

[Black Krim]

Originally Posted by Gerardo

Expect to prune a lot, expect them to be larger than you thought.

TOO TRUE..... you are scaring me...

[Black Krim]

Looked up Better Boy on the Rutgers site and if this is the variety that Mr Wilbur used, then I'm in trouble... either the values are really only a guess, or Mr Wilbur does something very special indeed.

This data is definitely important to understanding the value of the data presented on the Rutgers site.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by Ricky Shaw

I'm with Sydney, if it's an indeterminate, you can force it vertical. I'm interested in how much is possible with some of the Russian varieties with strong determinate tendencies. Malachite Box had a tendency to bush for me and this year I'm taking it to one-stem.

Anyone grow Malachite Box, Moskovic, Paul Robeson, or similar Russian's, to one-stem or two-stem and can share their observations?

I've never grown it pruned, but Malakhitovaya Shkatulka got tall for me this year. And I even put it out relatively late by the area's standards (1st week of June). I grew it on a trellis then let it cascade back down toward the ground once it outgrew it. It probably reached 12 feet by the time I pulled it. It wasn't unusually bushy for me. Growth habit was pretty similar to its neighbor Big Beef.

[Ricky Shaw]

Black Sea Man is a potato leaf determinate with a fairly compact habit that some mention as similar in taste to Black Krim and could be worth exploring OP. And an answer to my question came along also, thank you Krim.

gorbelly, excellent info and thank you. Pruned to 4-stem, the Malakhitovaya Shkatulka, Moskovic, Paul Robeson all grew to around 6ft, thick stalked, and dense foliage. The Cosmonaut Volkov was 7.5ft plus and medium dense foliage and by far the biggest producer.

We had a cold rain come through the last week of August and took momentum from everything. The Russian stuff lost all vigor with the exception of Cosmonaut Volkov. The Malakhitovaya Shkatulka was phenomenal in taste and I'll regrow it even though it was a difficult plant with mold problems.

[Black Krim]

I am wondering how the natives of SA managed these huge plants. Wishing for a time capsule.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by Ricky Shaw

gorbelly, excellent info and thank you. Pruned to 4-stem, the Malakhitovaya Shkatulka, Moskovic, Paul Robeson all grew to around 6ft, thick stalked, and dense foliage.

Just goes to show how much the growing conditions can effect things. My MS was not pruned at all (except for ratty/diseased foliage) and got to be twice as tall as yours. Mine was also not unusually thick-stalked. Not dainty or anything, just nothing out of the ordinary for a large indet. beefsteak.

Originally Posted by Ricky Shaw

The Malakhitovaya Shkatulka was phenomenal in taste and I'll regrow it even though it was a difficult plant with mold problems.

Mine were really great-tasting as well. It was an easy plant for me. Tremendous production for an heirloom--almost on par with Big Beef F1. Got a touch of EB like everything else, but it coped well with it. My issue was an unusual amount of BER for an oblate beefsteak type. But our June and July were very hot and dry--I don't grow paste tomatoes and rarely see BER around here, but I had issues with it on two of my varieties this summer. It was the most attractive tomato to aphids and got a bad infestation in the fall once the aphid predators had called it a season and gone dormant, but by then it was almost ready to be pulled.

I think when I read descriptions of plant size for indet. plants, I just take it as a comparative. A plant described as "compact" is comparatively so. Which for me might mean 6 feet while for someone else, it might mean 4 feet.

[Black Krim]

I think when I read descriptions of plant size for indet. plants, I just take it as a comparative. A plant described as "compact" is comparatively so. Which for me might mean 6 feet while for someone else, it might mean 4 feet.

Well said.