Need advice at Crucial point..

[moneymaker]

As I recall he as just built a new greenhouse and if they have been under grow. Lights ,moving them into a greenhouse they should be fine natural light is better than grow lights ,but each to is own, is climate is very much the same as mine,. Plus get the right variety of tomatoes to suit the climate,. I e. Some heirlooms don't do well here in the u k

[murihikukid]

Originally Posted by moneymaker

Hi Ron ,sorry I got it wrong about moss on a closer look at the pic it looks like rockwool, as regards grow lights as you are in the heights of summer in N Z I cannot think for the life of me why you need them you must be getting 18 hours of daylight there now. Stand your plants in the greenhouse on staging and VENTILATE IT

Hi..I am still propagating seeds inside under grow lights...once they get their first true leaves I transplant them in pottles...the water comes from underneath and they have two 5 foot fluoro T8 tubes above them as close as i can get ....its been terribly windy here for some time now and I really have not had any reason to use fans ?? I just open my front "window" and the seedlings get ample wind movement ... my other plants are out in my greenhouse and as I finish it off I will have to put fans out there ....although there is ample ventilation in my design.????Cheers Ron

[murihikukid]

Originally Posted by dmforcier

You're assuming that he has a greenhouse. Last I heard it was torn up.

And going directly into full sun without hardening off is not a great idea.

Hi..I have on purpose not posted a photo of my greenhouse simply because its not quite completed ..If it stopped raining I could get it finished tomorrow apart from the front glass sliding door...it certainly is not torn up ....The big problem for me has always been trying to get my greenhouse built and manage my seeds and plants and that has led to real difficulty for me... Now my greenhouse has all my plants in it apart from my seedlings but of course diseases are now my problem introduced by plants purchased from a local garden centre...who could not care less ...Cheers Ron

[dmforcier]

Are you going with a glass ceiling in the GH, or will there be some attenuation of the sunlight?

I'd keep your seedlings well away from any diseased plants. Wait until the GH stabilizes before moving them to it.

Of course, you can start hardening off the seedlings after they get some size by setting them out in the sun for short periods, then bringing them back in the house.

It gets really windy here too, so a lot of my "hardening off" phase is for wind even more than light. I use 4 T8 tubes so the plants are pretty good about accepting sunlight when it comes to it.

You say your house doesn't have central heating or air conditioning? Is the Invercargill temperature really stable over the year?

[murihikukid]

Originally Posted by dmforcier

Are you going with a glass ceiling in the GH, or will there be some attenuation of the sunlight?

I'd keep your seedlings well away from any diseased plants. Wait until the GH stabilizes before moving them to it.

Of course, you can start hardening off the seedlings after they get some size by setting them out in the sun for short periods, then bringing them back in the house.

It gets really windy here too, so a lot of my "hardening off" phase is for wind even more than light. I use 4 T8 tubes so the plants are pretty good about accepting sunlight when it comes to it.

You say your house doesn't have central heating or air conditioning? Is the Invercargill temperature really stable over the year?

Hi...The Greenhouse has Novalite (a fibreglass plastic ) with Glass at an angle joining the walls to the roof....There will be photos soon...??

Invercargill has unpredictable weather and at this time of year wind is the biggest enemy ...we had a great Winter and spring...it was unbelievable and now we are paying for it...I no longer see Tunnel houses around...they probably have blown away but my greenhouse wont??
I have new seeds inside under T8 lights and I have just put another 20 odd seeds in my propagator under grow lights......In a few days hopefully I will have the GH roof finished off and then I have to try and get a sliding rear and front door on it...and try to figure out how much air is required ...there is an opening at each end of the roof due to its unique structure ...I can leave these openings as they are or cover them in or put fans in the opening...I also have to figure out how to install some flashings to stop water coming in ?? a design flaw??

I also have to organise my plants inside the GH...and this can only be done when I have finished my GH..Cheers Ron

[MissS]

Originally Posted by murihikukid

Patti...Its always puzzled me ..."cold Treatment"....do i put them in a fridge ...?? My house is basicly the same temperature throughout ...I do not have home heating or anything like that ....Cheers Ron

Ron, you asked how to create "nice thick stems". Which is a very good question. Now, you must remember that you are asking on a public forum. There are many people both lurkers and members reading these threads and looking for information, so when we reply to a question or comment, we try to include all options so that others might learn from these threads too. We are not just here to help you, but to any other person wanting to know the answers too. The information given is wonderful to post at this time since many of our new members will be starting their seeds in the nest few weeks.

The "cold treatment" is one of the best methods to promote sturdy, thick stems. Unfortunately it is not an option for you unless you have an air conditioner available. This would not only supply the wind which also promotes thick stems but also give the plants the cooler temps. Most people start their seeds 6-12 weeks BEFORE their last frost date not 12 weeks after which is what you are doing. If the seeds are started BEFORE the last frost, then there is plenty of opportunity to allow the plants to be exposed to cooler but not freezing temperatures before planting out. It is now the equivalent of our July where you live which is not an ideal time to be starting any tomato seeds. At this point I would have chosen 10 or so of your healthiest plants to work with. I would try to clean them up and grow them out well. I would have waited until March or April to start a FEW more seeds to grow as an indoor crop, if you are going to be having one this year.

[murihikukid]

Patti..I will take everything on board although its getting harder for me ....I forget things etc and I cannot do anything about that...I just hope people realise I am getting to the end of my life....
Now this season a lot of things went against me particularly my greenhouse ..it was coming along nicely then summer arrived with the winds and rain so plants that i had intended to go outside were left bunched up inside..I just had no other place to put them....Without under standing the unpredictabkle weather patterns here comments on planting seasons basicly fall on deaf ears as far as I am concerned ..I continually told you about the beautiful winter and autum and I knew summer would be either late or not at all ..Events annually held in November here are now being transferred to February.. .I propagated the last of my seeds in the early hours of this morning??? simply because in the weather conditions here I think they will survive and I now have a nice new home for them all with plenty of space when they get transplanted....We have as yet had no summer weather....
Re the stems??I just cannot get over these Tasty Toms I purchased ....Is their such a product as a growth hormone as the stems on these are so thick and like rock when one touches them ...I hope they carry this strength through to any laterals I try to grow....
I see now the folly of buying from Garden centres ....these cut price plants they had looked terrible but i thought it was mainly neglect.....Now I go back to the Early Girl Graft bought from another garden centre ....I saw what I now know was Powdery Mildew on it and that was months ago ..but ignored it ?? didn't know what it was so powdery mildew has been in the house for some time ...meantime right beside it is my #3 original Tasty Tom Cutting transplanted May 11th into its washing machine drum and it is still giving me the ONLY Tomatoes for all my money and work ...Amazing.....and thats the one that the main head stem broke on and I wrapped it in Band aids to keep it from completely snapping ???Another reason I never under estimate the ability of tomato plants although I think the baking soda recipe may have been too much...If only I had found the Natures Way Fungicide before I did this or used milk as the box with 12 plants I did with milk is looking pretty good ....But is the powdery mildew still there?? to be honest I just do not know...


I wonder?? Will seedlings grow for a period of time in a fridge ? If they do I could easily find a cheap one ...adjust its temperature and if required set up some lighting ..

Regards this season I am resigned to just taking what I get ,learning about baking soda ,bleach etc and hoping that the Natures Way Fungicide I bought will do the job...I will also see from the authorities......if I can import some Daconil and Serenade

Yes my seeds will be propagated early for next season...and I do intend to grow plants inside again BUT I will take your advice and grow dwarf plants or smaller plants like Russian Red ,Paul Robeson and eny others that are of the smallish variety...I still intend to plant 4 drums to a freezer ....there was no problem....but I then started to use the cover for newer plants I was preparing again because I had no other space... This will not happen this year...

Regards Ron

[AKmark]

Thick stems the easy way. Good lighting, 1200PPM with a fertilizer program that fits the needs of the tomato plant, and a fan gently blowing on the seedlings.

[MissS]

Ron the growers of the big box stores do use growth regulators to treat their plants. They also have huge fans blowing on the plants and give them the cold treatment.They need their plants lush, deep green and sturdy to promote sales and they need the plants to all be of a uniform size for ease of shipping. The hormones keep the plants a uniform size. The cold slows growth and wind provides strong sturdy stems.

Powdery mildew spores are most likely still present as is grey mold spores. You need to sterilize your greenhouse, pots and tools. Wash your hands in between plants or rub them down with alcohol first. Most of these spores are also in the air around us and are just waiting for the right conditions and plants to grow. That is why it is so very important to start a preventive program right from the start. It is far easier to prevent these diseases than it is to cure them.

I had tried to encourage you not to buy any plants from garden centers because many of us have had the same issues. I am sorry that you had to learn this lesson the hard way. Expensive for sure.

I have used milk in my gardens for my perennials that have had powdery mildew and had good results. I did not ever try this with my tomatoes but Marsha/Ginger here on the forum did and she did not have a good result. So I really can not say that milk will work with a good level of confidence. If you do choose to experiment with it I would keep using it once a week so that all new growth is covered as it emerges.

I do not suggest that you try growing seedlings in the fridge. There just is no air movement in there. It is stagnant and will just grow more fungus. Give them good lighting, food and put a fan on them. That will give you as sturdy of a plant as you can have right now.

[murihikukid]

Patti..Of Course I have a problem straight away ..Although the Greenhouse was "washed" with JeyEs Fluid I could only do the floor....it was not sprayed simply because there was plants in there and I was fearful for my tomatoes ....So what Do I do ....can I move all My tomatoes into a new environment (and I only have the house ) and then spray the greenhouse top and bottom ...The crucial point in this....HOW LONG before I can safely move my tomatoes back into the greenhouse ..thats what I need to know.......Its no problem in doing this for me as long as its say no longer than 24 - 48 hours ...and fertilizers ??not my strong point (many over here use blood and bone and all sorts of natural manuers from livestock..)
Its like spraying..Surely it cannot be any good buying and spraying all the various sprays one is told....One would I presume have to settle on a Spray and a fertilizer and hope for the best....
Yes I remember your warning about plants from garden centres...but I was at a point where my own plants were having real problems and I was unsure they would survive so when I saw $1-$1.50 for single and packs of 6 I thought it best to buy some for an insurance....I also re propagated seeds on Dec 6th for an extra cover...IE I would sooner try Stump of the World than Early Girl... The Dec 6th plants are looking good and will be out in the green house as soon as they can...certainly if I can get away with spraying and it drys in EG 24 hours with no danger to any of the plants if I put them back in I will be doing that within days...
Cheers Ron

[MissS]

From what I looked up JeyEs Fluid is bleach. If that is correct then, yes, you most certainly could place your plants back in the greenhouse within 24 hours. If fact, bleach in chlorine which evaporates quite rapidly. I would say that you could put your plants back in within 8 hours after spraying it. I would be sure to have it well ventilated while you do this and while it is drying, so do not close your doors until it is dry.

I do like the natural fertilizers. That is mostly what I use for my gardens. The difference however is that you are growing in pots, which is much different than growing in the garden. I would not use blood or bone meal in pots ever again. I tried it one year and had a terrible time with fly maggots living in the soil and feeding on these ingredients. These pots were in my house and I had hundreds of flies all over the place. I was not happy at all. Now the manure, if it is aged, is a great amendment for your pots. In your case I would stick with your Miracle Grow and tweak it now and then with CalMag if you can find it. You could also benefit with some wood ash on hand which adds additional potash for fruiting and helps with your radical ph problems.

No you can not be spraying your plants all of the time. You need to set a spray program to cover all of your bases and only spray once every 10 days or so. Wet foliage leads to more disease. It seems that you need a fungicide that is effective on several pathogens. That is the reason that I encouraged you to alternate between two products for spraying your plants.

[MissS]

Ron another concern for carrying disease is your capillary mats and Styrofoam containers. These too need to be disinfected to the max especially since you used them last year where you had such disastrous results.

[moneymaker]

Hi Ron. ,are you using the right JEYES. FLUID, the one I use is a disinfectant in a blue and yellow tin ,this I spray all my glass and surfaces ,wash all posts and trays, plus ideal for steralising compost and soil,. But read all the instructions on the tin it is very strong LEAVE all the doors open for 48 HOURS for venterlatiion when the smell as
Gone it's safe to put your plants in. Don't get the JEYES fluid on the plants. It is not a bleach,. Spray the greenhouse wall as well, I use it every year for the past 40. Years no bugs or slug's in my greenhouse

[murihikukid]

Originally Posted by AKmark

Thick stems the easy way. Good lighting, 1200PPM with a fertilizer program that fits the needs of the tomato plant, and a fan gently blowing on the seedlings.

Hi..I am wondering what PPM is ..Thanks Ron

[MissS]

Parts Per Million

This is a way of expressing very dilute concentrations of substances. Just as per cent means out of a hundred, so parts per million or ppm means out of a million. Usually describes the concentration of something in water or soil. One ppm is equivalent to 1 milligram of something per liter of water (mg/l) or 1 milligram of something per kilogram soil (mg/kg).

Per Northwestern Universities dictionary.