What happened to my tomato? - Page 2

b54red · January 18, 2017

Besides Late Blight the two most discouraging diseases to me are Bacterial Wilt and TSWV. Both take down plants usually when they are young mature plants setting fruit or getting near to ripening fruit. Bacterial Wilt is worse because it usually hits when the plant is just loaded up with nice big green fruit. Worst of all there is nothing you can do to stop them once they get started on a plant.

Bill

Dutch · January 18, 2017

Hi Giblet,
Welcome to Tomatoville and thanks for posting here. It looks to me like the roots are probably under attack by something in the soil and the roots are not sending anything up to nourish the plants. If you can, please pull out a plant and take pictures of the roots. A picture of the roots with the soil still on them and a picture of them with the soil washed off would be helpful.
We all try to work together here at Tomatoville, to help one another and I hope we can get to the “root” of your tomato problem. Thank you for your participation and please post back when you can. Thanks again.
Dutch

KimchiMonger · January 18, 2017

So do we have a preventative approach to this Bacterial Wilt? I'd hate to see my plants get hit with this seemingly rapid decline!

Gerardo · January 19, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by KimchiMonger

So do we have a preventative approach to this Bacterial Wilt? I'd hate to see my plants get hit with this seemingly rapid decline!

Amount of rainfall is in Tlaloc's hands, temperature of soil is also out of your control, and those are two big factors. If you go the container route it'll still happen.

Irrespective of preventative measures, all of us experiences losses.

Bacterial Wilt at least is definitive. There's a few others that string you along with hopes of saving the plant, and you do your best impression of an ICU nurse, all to no avail.

I agree with Bill, TSWV and BW are discouraging, silver lining is they force you to become a true believer in "backup" plants.

2016 was a TSWV year for me. 2015 was BW.

Let's see what 2017 brings.

Dutch · January 19, 2017

Soil solarization works well. It is done before anything is planted in the soil. Solarization kills almost everything in the soil, both the good and the bad stuff, so good microbes should be added after this procedure. Plant-tone, Garden-tone, Tomato-tone are names of some popular products added to the soil in containers and raised beds after solarization to provide the soil with beneficial bacteria and beneficial fungi.
If you have limited access to the products stated above and the problem is just bacterial, you might want to consider adding beneficial microbes to get rid of the bad microbes. Using a lactobacillus serum or a bokashi culture might work, but only if the problem is caused by bacteria that are harmful to plant roots and not by parasitic nematodes or insect larvae. A picture of the roots would be helpful.
Dutch

gorbelly · January 19, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

Soil solarization works well.

Soil solarization is effective for vert. and fus. but not for bacterial wilt.

gorbelly · January 19, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerardo

If you go the container route it'll still happen.

A well-sanitized container with fresh commercial potting medium with no soil? Sure, the bacteria could drift in from elsewhere, be carried by pests maybe... but I can't believe it's anything but super rare to have a plant go down under those conditions. Maybe if you place the containers on infected soil.

Of course, fresh potting medium in containers big enough for tomatoes gets prohibitively expensive.

EDIT: I stand corrected. I found an old GW post in which Carolyn and Craig discuss other possible vectors and Craig confirms that he gets BW, V AND F in containers with fresh mix. http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussi...estions-please

Dutch · January 19, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorbelly

Soil solarization is effective for vert. and fus. but not for bacterial wilt.

Soil solarization is effective against plant pathogens including fungi, bacteria, nematodes, insects, and mites along with weed seeds.
I did not know that you had determined that it was bacterial wilt that was infecting your plants. Judging from the pictures, I would think the problem was in the soil. I don't see the signs on the stems or leaves that would indicate a foliage disease was causing that type of damage. I am familiar with the environment in Cambodia. Where have you been getting your water from to water those plants, when it's not raining? Do you have black flies in your area?
Dutch

giblet · January 20, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

Soil solarization is effective against plant pathogens including fungi, bacteria, nematodes, insects, and mites along with weed seeds.
I did not know that you had determined that it was bacterial wilt that was infecting your plants. Judging from the pictures, I would think the problem was in the soil. I don't see the signs on the stems or leaves that would indicate a foliage disease was causing that type of damage. I am familiar with the environment in Cambodia. Where have you been getting your water from to water those plants, when it's not raining? Do you have black flies in your area?
Dutch

Hi Dutch, we get the water from a well (and also rainfall). I have not had our well tested, but it has a lot of iron and minerals and I don't get the sense it's particularly clean. I've also taken water from our duck pond and let it sit for a few days to lower the acid and watered the plants with that as fertilizer, but only every few weeks or once a month.

giblet · January 20, 2017

Thank you everyone for your help. I ended up pulling two plants but took more photos in the hopes you could give me a diagnosis:

Here's the Tycoon plant pictured above:

And photos from the Corleone that went down the next day. I thought the leaf color was strange.

Gerardo · January 20, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorbelly

A well-sanitized container with fresh commercial potting medium with no soil? Sure, the bacteria could drift in from elsewhere, be carried by pests maybe... but I can't believe it's anything but super rare to have a plant go down under those conditions. Maybe if you place the containers on infected soil.

Of course, fresh potting medium in containers big enough for tomatoes gets prohibitively expensive.

EDIT: I stand corrected. I found an old GW post in which Carolyn and Craig discuss other possible vectors and Craig confirms that he gets BW, V AND F in containers with fresh mix. http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussi...estions-please

It's hard to predict too. Some lots of potting mix are fresher than others, with varying microbiological populations, so I usually open the bag up and let it breathe for a week or two or three before using it. I've resorted to reducing the amount of recycled mix (it sits for at least 4-5 months with an adequate amount of chicken manure to steer the herd in the right direction), plus a solid drenching with veg-compost tea (made from this stuff, http://growersunitedhydro.com/pdf/200.pdf) at final pot-up. Reduced my wilts.

gorbelly · January 20, 2017

After seeing the pics, I wouldn't rule out southern blight as a possibility, either. The girdling of the crown--do I see signs of fuzzy white mycelium?

Did you notice any sclerotia, which look like tiny round seeds, around any fuzzy while mold patches? They would range in color from white to brown. Of course, the plants could have been pulled before the appearance of sclerotia.

giblet · January 20, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorbelly

After seeing the pics, I wouldn't rule out southern blight as a possibility, either. The girdling of the crown--do I see signs of fuzzy white mycelium?

Did you notice any sclerotia, which look like tiny round seeds, around any fuzzy while mold patches? They would range in color from white to brown. Of course, the plants could have been pulled before the appearance of sclerotia.

No, I didn't notice anything like that. I took photos of anything that looked like it might mean something. Do the spots on the tomatoes mean anything?

Here are some albums of each plant that have the photos in order from newest to oldest. (Sort of reminds me of the photo album I made when my dog died!)

Tycoon photo album
Corleone photo album

gorbelly · January 20, 2017

Oh, I think my eyes are playing tricks on me. The light-colored background coming through the roots created an optical illusion of white fuzzy material on them. Never mind. It's just that the way entire plants wilt with the leaves staying perfectly green is the same in both southern blight and bacterial wilt.

The spots on the tomatoes look like sucking pest damage to me.

giblet · January 20, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorbelly

The spots on the tomatoes look like sucking pest damage to me.

That would make sense. I have several varieties of sucking pests who torment me. I put up yellow sticky traps the other day and a sparrow got caught on one (it got itself loose but left a few feathers) and a gecko got caught on one and I had to spend a good ten minutes getting it off without hurting it.

So if this is bacterial wilt or southern blight I shouldn't plant tomatoes in the same beds again?

January 18, 2017	#17
Dutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: S.E. Wisconsin Zone 5b Posts: 1,831	Hi Giblet, Welcome to Tomatoville and thanks for posting here. It looks to me like the roots are probably under attack by something in the soil and the roots are not sending anything up to nourish the plants. If you can, please pull out a plant and take pictures of the roots. A picture of the roots with the soil still on them and a picture of them with the soil washed off would be helpful. We all try to work together here at Tomatoville, to help one another and I hope we can get to the “root” of your tomato problem. Thank you for your participation and please post back when you can. Thanks again. Dutch __________________ "Discretion is the better part of valor" Charles Churchill The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein I come from a long line of sod busters, spanning back several centuries.

January 19, 2017	#20
Dutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: S.E. Wisconsin Zone 5b Posts: 1,831	Soil solarization works well. It is done before anything is planted in the soil. Solarization kills almost everything in the soil, both the good and the bad stuff, so good microbes should be added after this procedure. Plant-tone, Garden-tone, Tomato-tone are names of some popular products added to the soil in containers and raised beds after solarization to provide the soil with beneficial bacteria and beneficial fungi. If you have limited access to the products stated above and the problem is just bacterial, you might want to consider adding beneficial microbes to get rid of the bad microbes. Using a lactobacillus serum or a bokashi culture might work, but only if the problem is caused by bacteria that are harmful to plant roots and not by parasitic nematodes or insect larvae. A picture of the roots would be helpful. Dutch __________________ "Discretion is the better part of valor" Charles Churchill The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein I come from a long line of sod busters, spanning back several centuries.

January 18, 2017	#16
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Besides Late Blight the two most discouraging diseases to me are Bacterial Wilt and TSWV. Both take down plants usually when they are young mature plants setting fruit or getting near to ripening fruit. Bacterial Wilt is worse because it usually hits when the plant is just loaded up with nice big green fruit. Worst of all there is nothing you can do to stop them once they get started on a plant. Bill

January 18, 2017	#18
KimchiMonger Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 54	So do we have a preventative approach to this Bacterial Wilt? I'd hate to see my plants get hit with this seemingly rapid decline!

January 20, 2017	#25
giblet Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Cambodia Posts: 25	Thank you everyone for your help. I ended up pulling two plants but took more photos in the hopes you could give me a diagnosis: Here's the Tycoon plant pictured above: And photos from the Corleone that went down the next day. I thought the leaf color was strange.

January 20, 2017	#27
gorbelly Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania Posts: 1,069	After seeing the pics, I wouldn't rule out southern blight as a possibility, either. The girdling of the crown--do I see signs of fuzzy white mycelium? Did you notice any sclerotia, which look like tiny round seeds, around any fuzzy while mold patches? They would range in color from white to brown. Of course, the plants could have been pulled before the appearance of sclerotia.