Diagnose my tomatoes?

[beetkvass]

Ok, so we've sliced into a number of stems. I've been unclear on how far gone they need to be do that. One source said to cut into stems that are just starting to wilt another said ones that were dead. Most of them I see no sign of brown on the inside. But I have a picture of one that looks like there might be some brown in it? If it's fusarium would all of them have this?

[RayR]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

You'll see that I was referring to Rays post above about EB,so no I'm not saying it looks like Fusarium, only about EB. While I do know the symptoms of Fusarium,we don't have Fusarium where I garden,unless contaminated tomato plants are shipped up from the south already contaminated to nurseries,but then the ground usually freezes deeply in the winter up here which kills both F and contaminated RKN plants as well.

Carolyn

Carolyn, I've never seen EB infect the top of the plant first. I know it's possible because the oldest leaves and the newest leaves are most susceptible to EB infection. Mid-growth has the highest resistance.

[Cole_Robbie]

That looks like vascular browning to me. It is easier to see on the main stems than on the leaf stem.

The fact that you said your plants were wilting a little at the top is another sign it is one of the wilts. Distinguishing between fusarium and verticillium wilt is very difficult. If it were bacterial wilt, they would be dead already.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by RayR

Carolyn, I've never seen EB infect the top of the plant first. I know it's possible because the oldest leaves and the newest leaves are most susceptible to EB infection. Mid-growth has the highest resistance.

I'm surprised that you never have seen EB infect the top of the plants first, since all folks that I know see it first at the top since ALL NEW infections are seen at the top as opposed to splash back reinfection.

Ah well,

Carolyn

[brownrexx]

I have also never seen EB infect the top of the plant first. LB starts at the top but EB always starts at the bottom.

[ginger2778]

Its early blight. Early blight has brown lesions that get concentric areas as it spreads, and a yellow halo around the brown concentric rings. It starts at leaf edges and works it's way toward a leaf center. All the early blight I ever saw, and I have seen a lot, started on lower older leaves. Yes, the liquid copper treatment is a very good way to treat it, and keep treating it every 7 -10 days as a preventive.
To check for fusarium, stems should be cut lengthwise. The brown area will be along the vascular tissue just inside the outermost layer of the stem. Typically it will be along one side, at least as first, then advances to the whole stem. So you will see a one sided die off progression.

[Hoosier]

Agree with the EB diagnosis. The spots are a dead five away over F. It ALWAYS starts at the bottom of my plants. Why, I don't know bit I suspect that it is what is infected early before it grows out. It will creep it's way up if not controlled. I am no expert but have seen this many years and know it's not F in my garden as the plants continue on for the season.

[AlittleSalt]

Not to agree or disagree with anyone's diagnosis. Something caught my attention. Look at the 5th picture in post 1 - center near the wire frame. There is an abrasion that is brown inside, so I looked up pictures:

early blight tomato stem abrasion https://www.google.com/search?q=earl...w=1152&bih=553

Fusarium tomato stem abrasion https://www.google.com/search?q=Fusa...w=1152&bih=553

[gorbelly]

The "v" shaped lesions could be verticillium. It's hard to say without more photos of many different angles of the plant, but I think I also see dramatic yellowing that affects one side of a leaflet more than the other. That's also verticillium or, at least, soil-borne wilt.

EB has always appeared to be a combo of mostly circular target-like lesions and some v-shaped ones if formed near the leaf edge, not almost all v-shaped and primarily on the edges and tips like verticillium and like what I see in those photos.

Another possibility is botrytis, which produces v-shaped lesions and is often confused with EB.

Botrytis lesion (source):


Verticillium lesions (source):


Early blight lesions (source):


From what I've seen, fusarium has smaller, more irregular lesions and generally looks "cruddier".


EDITED TO ADD: FWIW, I thought it was vert. on the first few photos, but upon looking at the more recent closeup, I think that it could well be EB.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by beetkvass

Ok, so we've sliced into a number of stems. I've been unclear on how far gone they need to be do that. One source said to cut into stems that are just starting to wilt another said ones that were dead. Most of them I see no sign of brown on the inside. But I have a picture of one that looks like there might be some brown in it? If it's fusarium would all of them have this?

You need to cut into stems, not leaf rachises.

I forget which, but one of them requires cutting into the stem within 15 inches or so of the base of a plant, which means it's essentially for the purposes of post-mortem diagnosis.

[MissS]

Yes, you need to cut into main stems on the lower part of the plant to make the diagnosis. Leaf stems as you are showing will tell you nothing at all. I'm sorry but you are a single stem grower, it means that you have lost the plant. If you have multiple stems then you could just prune off one to help with the diagnosis.

I too think that this is EB.

[b54red]

You probably have some Early Blight but more than likely you also have early symptoms of fusarium wilt. You don't need to kill the plant to check for it. Take one of the main stems that is showing a good bit of yellowing on the lower leaves and even better if it is one that has shown some slight wilting and then cut it off just above where it joins the main stem. If the fusarium wilt is bad you will see the browning on the inside of the stem where you made the fresh cut but if it is mild, splitting the stem should show you the dark yellow to brown discoloration inside the stem. If you see this then you are dealing with fusarium wilt. If you don't then be happy. Of course you could also have problems with RKN which will usually degrade the plant more slowly than fusarium.

I rarely see EB high up on the plant initially but I did this year after seeing a few plants with a little EB near the bottom earlier in the spring we got a lot of daily rain for most of the past two weeks. EB hit a good many of my plants and it first showed up in the top third which I rarely see down here.

Bill

[swellcat]

There is quite a profound lack of consensus on tomato-disease diagnosis, isn't there, even among the highly experienced.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by swellcat

There is quite a profound lack of consensus on tomato-disease diagnosis, isn't there, even among the highly experienced.

I think most of that lack of consensus is brought on by trying to diagnose from pictures. It is usually much easier to spot a disease that you are familiar with when you are actually looking at the plant and not a photo. Some diseases and conditions can be very similar in some ways so actually being there makes a big difference. Some diseases take on slightly different appearances depending on many things like the climate, how far the disease has progressed, the age and maturity of the plant affected, the amount of light hitting the plant and whether other diseases or pests are also affecting the plant at the same time.

I am very familiar with some diseases that afflict my plants nearly every year and can also spot most of the varying symptoms fairly early. The same is true of some pests that make my gardening much more challenging every year. Being able to spot these things early takes some time and experience especially since diseases don't always present early with exactly the same look. Although spotting some diseases early like TSWV or Fusarium wilt doesn't do you much good because nothing you do will really significantly change the outcome. Spotting things like Gray mold and spider mites early can save your plants if you know how to respond. Diseases that I don't have to deal with often can give me fits as can new pests I am unfamiliar with but with each successive year of gardening I find fewer surprises.

Bill

[My Foot Smells]

Yup, looks like EB to me. As far as plant placement, mine usually starts at the bottom or middle of the plant and only affects one stem at a time. But "may" seem that way, since blight is more prevalent in the spring here and plants are smaller. I also get septoria on just about everything, which has wiped out several red tips (they quit selling red tips here d/t the wet spring and foliar disease). I also get fire blight on fruit trees, I have a blueberry with stem blight, etc., etc...

In the south, when it rains - it pours - so it seems. Several days were clocked at 6+" in one day. Weather pattern is looking mo' fav, but now the abusive heat is on the horizon - soaking wet retrieving the morning paper. Got fam down in Geo, and it gets sultry down there on the red clay for sure. At least I don't have kudzoo wreaking havaoc here - yet. i'm sure some bozo will bring some back......