The Red Fox

[dmforcier]

As pretty as they are fox are killers.

As pretty as they are cats are killers.

It all depends on where you draw the line. I've lost cats to coyotes too, and I would kill a coyote without much regret. But foxes are much smaller than coyotes and would have a big problem taking a grown cat. The threat is to unguarded kittens, and Salt, you were indicating that the fox didn't show much interest in the 5 month olds.

No, I wouldn't kill a fox. Please don't fall for the picture that predators are horrible. They are an important part of nature. Protect your own, but be sure that there's a real threat before you take extreme measures.

Salt, I'm fascinated that your fox is so friendly and responsive. If it were me, I'd tried to pursue the relationship. Who knows what might happen?

[MissS]

I am certainly very sorry that I have offended you Worth. There are other solutions than exterminating everything that you perceive as a threat to your pets and crops. People everywhere have wildlife issues. They deal with them without resorting to guns. I deal with deer, rabbits, groundhogs, gophers and stray cats on a regular basis. These animals drive me nuts. I thankfully have fox and coyotes to help control them. Will a fox or coyote take a dog or cat? Sometimes. Most often when rabbits and rodents are in short supply. They will take a small dog that has been tied to a post but not the one that is free to roam. A tied out dog is like putting a worm on a fishing line, the owners are just asking for a bite. If a persons pets are at risk, it is as you say the owners responsibility to protect them. You can protect their welfare just as well as the creatures in your world. Do I protect all animals, NO. As I have said, my family owns a game farm. I hunt. I have used a gun to shoot animals for food. My point here is, is that killing should not be your first solution. There are many more options available in this day and age and from Salts post above, Texas does not have any regulations or suggestions other than they are allowed to be "taken". It is not so in most other places in America. Most states, counties and cities/villages have some very specific regulations on dealing with wildlife in your yard. So hence, the reference to Texans. You are unregulated people concerning animal control and the cheapest and easiest method that most of you use is a gun. Worth, since killing an animal is unregulated down there, that is what most of you will chose to do. I have never heard you suggest a means to deter the animals or put up a fence to keep them out, all I have ever heard from you is to shoot the deer, fox, pigs, coyotes and maybe a rabbit or two as well.

My intention was to make you people think that perhaps there is another solution because, there IS.

[MissS]

I have a Purple Marin House. I enjoy watching the birds nesting there. One day a squirrel somehow found his way up there and ate every single baby and egg withing seconds. My brother was over and went for the gun. It was brutal. It was nature. Animals need to eat too. I did not allow him to shoot the pesky squirrel. I have seen hawks swoop down and take out a cat, should I then kill the hawk for being hungry? I have seen cats kill many a frog, rabbit, chipmunk and bird quite viciously. I had a cat kill my own falcon. Should I then kill the cat for doing that?

[Worth1]

What do you mean by (you people)?

See you guys later.

[SueCT]

We have foxes and Coyote. They have both taken pets, especially cats, and we have had a couple rapid who attacked dogs and humans, one was a fox and one was a Coyote. I would try a have a heart trap whenever possible, I don't think I could personally kill an animal unless it was directly threatening a pet or person, but I certainly don't condemn others for doing what may be difficult for them but what they think is right. I also would back off generalizing people with statements like "Texans seem to..." That can quickly get offensive as you have seen here. I also wish that the foxes, Coyotes and Cats could all coexist, but I have also seen that the Coyotes and foxes don't always agree.

[bjbebs]

I've had a long history with both fox and coyotes on my property. We have always had a cat that would spend nights outside. Coyotes will spend time in the area until their food source is gone. Rabbits are easy pickens and do not last long. A wily cat on its home turf is a much tougher catch.

We've had many families of fox through the years and they have never shown an interest in a cat.

[imp]

First, never tame a wild animal - all you are doing is not taming it, but making it be unafraid or wary about humans. A human habituated animal can be thought to be rabid and killed as it is not acting as it should.

In all my years, I've never seen a fox take a bigger or adult cat, though it may happen if there is enough hunger, a litter to feed or , like the silver fox mentioned before, habituated to humans.

A predator must gauge it's chances to succeed without harming it's self, otherwise injuries can make it dead or unable to continue in a healthy manner. All predators do this.

Fox kill rabbits, but even more mice and rats and they have a niche they fill well. They are also beauties, and seeing one in the wild is a treat. They will take chickens, yep, but only if it is easy to do so. The hawks may take your chickens, too, or the chickens may kill one of their own and cannibalize it.

We should have learned a lesson from killing all the wolves.

If an animal is acting in a dangerous manner and for what ever reason live trapping is not an option, then it must be killed. But to kill an animal for simply acting as nature made it...or because it may get a chicken or 2?

Salt, thank you for going to check with the game warden Monday. Best to know what is legal and good to do.

[MissS]

The fox has done nothing other than be observed walking around and then having an interest in the cats. It acts as if it wants to be treated as a pet. It has been sighted many times. It has yet to do any harm.

So then someone that does not even live on the property tells someone that it is their "duty" to shoot the fox.

I guess that I am in the wrong. SHOOT the FOX. It is your duty. There is not any other solution to this vicious animal. Exterminate it immediately.

[AlittleSalt]

I apologize for starting this thread.

We lost our two adult cats to something last month. Most likely coyotes. Other neighbors in the area are also losing small animals.

I have known about the fox for several months. I was hoping it would just move on. The sound the fox was making when the 5 month old cats were near it is called Gekkering. It's a sound they make while playing or fighting. It sounds a lot like it has something stuck in its throat and it is trying to cough it out.

Patti and Worth - I PM with you two more than anyone else. I apologize again for starting a thread that made you two bump heads.

[imp]

Salt, people get offended as they wish to be offended. Just as Worth does not want anyone to hurt the 'possum's he has tamed others want wildlife to be left alone unless it is needed to be removed or killed.

This fox well could be an example of why "tame" wild animals as it sounds like the fox is used to people or may be a juvenile who is curious.

Coyotes are much more known to take cats and small dogs than fox are known to do this.

[Gardeneer]

We have been thinking about raise few chickens. But we have learned that we have to fence the coup and the area outside of it that the chicken can come out and and get part of the nature. The reason for that is that there are lots and lots of chicken hawks hovering all the time. There are probably coyotes too.
It is quite natural to protect your property, garden , chicken ... and cats. Killing is not always the only option. I am thinking about getting a guard dog to keep certain things away. like coyote, fox and deer.
BTW we are going to have a chicken coup and will fence it to protect our future chickens. There is no way to shoot the hawks. Plus I love them the way they hover around and hunt rats, mouse, squirrels and rabbits. There is a trade off.

[imp]

I kept chickens in e.Texas. Many years, I'd lose two or three a year to hawks as I put mine up at night but free ranged them during the day. Even chickens kill other chickens, it's a fact and to know and allow for losing some is prudent.

The flock ran from 60 to 80 plus, depending on time of year and such, and if I was killing chickens that month. I did run roosters with the flock, both to make fertile eggs to replace what was killed, and as a protection. Guinea hens were also kept, great bug and snake eaters and alarms.

A yard and hen house s only as good as you make them. Since I wanted to free range the chickens, I only built a good hen house and made it pretty varmint proof.

[AlittleSalt]

Here it is near 11 pm. I made a thread about what to do about a fox. I should pay attention to my wife instead of an animal that has my curiosity. The fox is interesting. My wife still has her figure when she was 17. She's beyond beautiful and she is my soulmate. I listen to every word she says and she still believes I can move mountains.

DM, my heart says to continue calling to the fox. It would be a life experience to pet it.

What to do next? Imp answered most logically.

[dmforcier]

Oh, I don't think you'll ever be able to pet it. But animals can convey their confidence that you're not out to hurt them, and maybe you have some Fox Chow (not to be confused with Mexican Chow). I'd be content just to go out and work and have him come up and lie down at a discrete distance, as if honoring your space as a protected space.

But do tell the cats that he's not safe.

[AlittleSalt]

DM, the fox is a she. I know the possibility of petting it is near impossible. There's a possibility I'll never see again.

"It's a female," and my natural response is to protect it, feed it, water it, and do everything I can for it.