recommendations for sweet-tart tomatoey varieties?

[b54red]

Some not mentioned yet are Dester, Kentucky Wonder, Brandywine Cowlick’s, Limbaugh’s Legacy, Arkansas Traveler, Couiles de Tareau and Giant Belgium.

Bill

[Tormato]

Originally Posted by FarmerShawn

I also love SNFLA, but class it as sweet/complex, in line with Brandywine. For tart/tangy, I like Jaune Flamee. Green Zebra is too tart for me.

Green Zebra, to me, is bitter/astringent, being much worse than the run-of-the-mill tart. It's these rare bitter/astringent tomatoes that rate a 1 on my scale of 1-10. True spitters.



The insipid (completely tasteless unless you make the mistake of chewing the skin too long), and the way too tart tomatoes rate a 2, for comparison.



A 3 would generally be a super market tomato in February.



A 4 would somehow be an extremely rare super market tomato in February that somehow had ideal growing and shipping conditions to make it my table, and them be subsequently drowned in salad dressing.



I'm too tired to do 5 to 10's.

[roper2008]

[QUOTE=ginger2778;731790]Try Olive Hill and also African Queen. Both are pink PL beefsteaks with an intense flavor, balanced but a bit in the sweet side. To me they both have that POW! Year after year I can't be without.

These sound good.. Thinking about ordering some.

[venturabananas]

Still loving the suggestions and hoping for more (though when and where I will have the time to grow them all is an unanswered question).

Dester was mentioned by b54red, but when I grew it, it was very sweet, but had no tart zing to it.

Brandywine Cowlick's was closer to what I like best (I rated its flavor as very good to excellent), but it wasn't a game changer for me. Mostly because it is similar to Rebel Yell (at least to me), but Rebel Yell tastes better to me and is more productive for me.

Limbaugh’s Legacy and Giant Belgium were already near the top of the "must grow in the future" list. So, they'll stay on that list.

Thanks all.

[b54red]

I don't know for sure but from my own tasting it seems that when my soil is too alkaline it is also more likely to have tomatoes that lack that zing in them. When I first grew Dester my soil ph was well above 7 and even 8 in a few beds and now most of my beds are in a range between 6 and 6.7 and i have found Dester to be well balanced. I also noticed this change with several of the somewhat sweet tomatoes but not the really sweet ones which never really got that zesty flavor. I have also noticed over the years that somewhat drier conditions seem to favor a more balanced flavored tomato while overly wet conditions seem to produce more of the bland less flavorful tomatoes. While most of the better pinks taste really good early in the season the black varieties seem to shine when it is very hot later in the summer as long as there isn't too much rain.

Bill

[venturabananas]

Thanks Bill. I hadn't thought about the effect of soil pH on flavor. I know people mention adding potassium (K) to increase the brix of fruit, but maybe I can try to drop the pH to up the tartness. All my tomatoes are now grown in pots (20 gallon) and our tap water is quite hard and alkaline, so your comments make sense.

Part of the reason I stopped growing tomatoes in ground was that the heavy clay soil in my yard really holds on to water and the tomatoes were very bland compared to the same varieties grown in pots where the roots were drier, which matches your observations about wet conditions. I guess I should view myself as fortunate that I can control watering during the tomato season -- here in California it pretty much never rains during then.

[ddsack]

Lots of good mostly pinks already named. I'm surprised no one has mentioned Girl Girl's Weird Thing, striped bi-color, and of course Captain Lucky.

[Tormato]

If soil pH effects flavor, I'm not amending my soil. The pH is likely about 5 to 5.5, and other than most red tomatoes and many cherries, everything else has strong flavor.

[venturabananas]

Originally Posted by ddsack

Lots of good mostly pinks already named. I'm surprised no one has mentioned Girl Girl's Weird Thing, striped bi-color, and of course Captain Lucky.

Girl Girl's Weird Thing is a nice tomato, but for me didn't beat Rebel Yell for flavor or productivity. It didn't have much tartness for me.

Captain Luck and Little Lucky have both been mentioned. How do they differ from each other in flavor and productivity?

[Scooty]

Originally Posted by venturabananas

Girl Girl's Weird Thing is a nice tomato, but for me didn't beat Rebel Yell for flavor or productivity. It didn't have much tartness for me.

Captain Luck and Little Lucky have both been mentioned. How do they differ from each other in flavor and productivity?

Are you just looking for more of the same of tomatoes you like?

Or are you trying to find "must try once"?

Everyone's tastebuds differ, combine that with variations in terrior, and different use of descriptors and adjectives to even describe the same taste, it's hard to get a consensus.

But if you're searching for a tomato bucket list - this is a good thread to start you off.

[Tormato]

Originally Posted by venturabananas

Thanks Bill. I hadn't thought about the effect of soil pH on flavor. I know people mention adding potassium (K) to increase the brix of fruit, but maybe I can try to drop the pH to up the tartness. All my tomatoes are now grown in pots (20 gallon) and our tap water is quite hard and alkaline, so your comments make sense.

Part of the reason I stopped growing tomatoes in ground was that the heavy clay soil in my yard really holds on to water and the tomatoes were very bland compared to the same varieties grown in pots where the roots were drier, which matches your observations about wet conditions. I guess I should view myself as fortunate that I can control watering during the tomato season -- here in California it pretty much never rains during then.

I've run controlled experiments, as much as I can control them, on the frequency of watering, and flavor. In the one dry year I had (one rain shower of 1/4") of basically the whole growing season, I tested watering every 2 1/2 days against watering every 5 days (5 days being the limit I would go in stressing non-mulched plants in 90 degree, +/- a few degrees, weather).


The same variety (Aunt Ginny's Purple, my favorite) was used as the "flavor" control. The plants were grown about 6 feet apart. The results...the plant watered every five days was not very good looking by mid summer, but the tomatoes were the best of the best for flavor. The plant watered every 2 1/2 days, a huge healthy plant that broke three stakes that attempted to hold up 30+ tomatoes weighing 40+ lbs. These averaged about 1/3 heavier than on the sickly plant. And the flavor...complete total duds.



And, because I have no control over the rain, I no longer transplant sideways. It's always starting plants in the smallest container (about 3" dia.) that will do, and transplanting straight up and down, trying to keep the smallest rootball, but also a reasonably healthy plant. If I had done the sideways planting in 2018, I think most of my harvest would have been bland. The rain was just short of being excessive, and the season was mostly on the edge.

[venturabananas]

Great feedback @Tormato. It completely agrees with what I've noticed in my even less well constructed backyard experiments. Water-stressed plants grow less, look worse, but make fruit that taste better. I just need to figure out how to get just enough water stress but not too much!

[venturabananas]

Originally Posted by Scooty

Are you just looking for more of the same of tomatoes you like?

Or are you trying to find "must try once"?

Everyone's tastebuds differ, combine that with variations in terrior, and different use of descriptors and adjectives to even describe the same taste, it's hard to get a consensus.

But if you're searching for a tomato bucket list - this is a good thread to start you off.

I guess my goals are to find varieties that I love the flavor of and that do well for me. Finding those varieties is complicated by the fact I don't have much space or time for growing tomatoes these days, so I was hoping to use the experiences of others to whittle down the "must try once" list to a list of must tries that have traits I like, and not ones that I don't like. For example, super sweet with no tartness at all doesn't appeal to my tastes, so I wouldn't want to bother with them even if they are on the "must try once" list. I've tried several of the must tries and was underwhelmed by some of them, presumably for the reasons you mentioned: different tastes of different folks, different growing conditions, etc. Others have become some of my favorites.

Thanks for providing the link to that old thread. I remember reading it at one point, but had forgotten what it said.

[nancyruhl]

I would vote for a trio of Italian varieties that have had that kind of rich flavor for me. Considering that they are Mediterranean varieties I think they might work well for you. Geo Detsika’s Italian Red, Palmira’s Northern Italian and Mrs Maxwell’s Big Italian. They all have that wow factor, with full sweetness followed by a nice zing. I also think these varieties meet your requirements for full tomato flavor but with a hint more sweetness: Hawaiian Pineapple, Virginia Sweets, Kellogg’s Breakfast.
I see now that you grow in containers. There are great dwarfs, too. Have you considered any of them. If I were container growing any of the list above, it would be Mrs Maxwell’s Big Italian. In my garden that variety is a more manageable size.

[Fred Hempel]

I think Captain Lucky is a wonderful sweet-tart