Saving Seeds - Page 2

Cole_Robbie · June 23, 2020

I have stored and reused hemp pollen before, by putting the pollen in a vial, then putting that vial in a small jar with uncooked rice to absorb moisture. Let it sit out of the freezer for a day before opening. Pollen is very sensitive to moisture, so I presume this method would work with seeds, too.

b54red · June 24, 2020

I have been fermenting seeds for many years and have done the mild bleach wash and also just dried them after rinsing without the bleach treatment. I have seen no difference in the life of the seeds. I keep mine in coin envelopes in an air conditioned room and have had no trouble with germination. Some varieties are still germinating fairly good after 10 years and others seem to only be good for 4 or 5 years before the germination rate drops.

I live in a very hot climate and find that three days fermenting in the heat is not usually enough to get rid of most of the gel coat on most varieties and I usually go 4 to 6 days. When a fair number of seeds start dropping to the bottom of the small jar I am fermenting in then it is usually time to clean the seeds by rinsing and pouring off the bad seed and the tomato pulp leaving the mostly good seed. I then pour them in a small strainer and rinse them under cold water and then dump them on a paper plate and separate them immediately and allow them to dry for a week or two before putting them in a coin envelope for storage.

One way to save time in seed saving is to know which varieties you need to save seed from and when filling the sauce pot just squeeze the seeds out of them before putting the rest in the sauce pot. I label each jar with the variety and date I start fermentation and place the jars on the porch in the shade and check them every day. After the third day I will sometimes bump the little bottle lightly down on the shelf and see if the seeds readily start dropping to the bottom. If it is really warm then the seeds are usually ready after 4 days and sometimes in the fall when the temps are lower it may take up to 7 days. Sometimes I have left them fermenting too long and have had a fair number of them starting to germinate so if possible I try not to go beyond 5 days. By doing a number of varieties each time we are making sauce then you only have to rinse and spread seeds a few times to save a lot of different varieties in a short period of time. One other little trick to speed things up a bit is to tighten the lid well and shake the jar vigorously before loosening the lid and starting the fermenting process. This seems to help separate the seeds from the pulp a bit faster in the process. Make sure you have the lid very loose when starting the fermenting though.

Tomato seed are fairly easy to save and from looking at the number that come up in the garden each spring where some random fruit has dropped to the ground and rotted. If natural fermentation is natures way of saving the seeds then it is good enough for me but however you do it try to make sure the seeds are good and dry before storing and try keeping them in air conditioned space if possible to avoid mold or germination from seed drawing moisture from the air in warm humid conditions.

Bill

Fusion_power · June 25, 2020

Is Volvo also Peter V. who used to hang out on the gardenweb forums?

The key to long term storage of tomato seed is to do each step right and keep the seed cool and dry and free from damaging insects.

1. Pick very ripe to slightly over-ripe fruit. Partially ripe fruit will usually have some viable seed, but also many that are not. Fully ripe to over-ripe fruit will usually have the best quality seed.

2. Squeeze the seed into a fermentation cup or jar and let them ferment 3 to 5 days. This is temperature dependent with higher temps making the process go faster. Temps of 68F (20C) take 5 days while temps of 86F (30C) gets the job done in 3 days. Do NOT put the seed in direct sunlight while fermenting, and do ensure the cups are covered to prevent flies laying eggs in them.

3. After fermented, wash the seed in a fine strainer until they are clean of all debris. A standard sink spray nozzle is handy for this. When the seed are clean, put them in a cup and add a tablespoon or two of bleach with 3 or 4 tablespoons of water and stir the seed. Wait 1 minute, then pour the seed into the strainer again and wash them with water until the bleach is gone.

4. Dump the seed from the strainer onto a paper plate. Do NOT use a paper towel as the seed will stick. A paper plate absorbs moisture from the seed speeding the drying process. After a few days, stir the seed to keep them from clumping.

5. Wait at least 3 weeks for the seed to dry. Your climate will play a part in the drying process with cool and/or damp climates taking a lot longer or even requiring heat as from heating the room the seed are stored in to dry.

6. When thoroughly dry, store the seed in glass jars with a cloth bag of rice to absorb moisture or if you have access to packets of moisture absorbent, put a few of them in to draw out excess moisture.

7. After the seed have stabilized in the glass jar for a week or two, put the jar in the freezer and leave it until you need seed to plant. When taken out of the freezer, the jar may accumulate moisture from the temperature difference. Let it set on a counter for about 8 hours before opening to prevent getting moisture in the jar where it can affect the seed.

Some will ask why the glass jar. There are two reasons. The first is that the jar maintains stable humidity. The second is that the jar prevents external oxygen from getting to the seed. Oxygen causes seed to break down over time.

I have small vials purchased on ebay a few years ago. For long term storage, I put seed in the vials, then put the vials in quart jars with labels so I know what is stored where. With this method, I can keep most tomato seed viable for at least 10 years.

Did you notice this is nearly the same as RXkeith? He is also correct that heart shaped varieties tend to have less viability. I've had trouble germinating Anna Russian seed that were 3 years old while other varieties saved at the same time were viable for 10+ years.

One caveat, there is a thread on tomatoes with no growing tip aka bullhead seedlings. Older seed will often produce bullheads. If you are patient, a bullhead will often produce a growing tip and turn into a viable plant.

Volvo · June 25, 2020

Volvo Peter V it is my Friend and yes used to hang out in Gardenweb where i made a lot of Good Friends even if i didnt get to meet them i still classed them as Friends

..Earl
Rosco
Grub

Just to mention a few where and how they are today i would dearly like to know .
Sent a PM to Grub which i noticed in an old post but no reply as yet.
Those days i was dearly passionate about my Tomatos and really always have been but coupole of years of failures with little pests , illness in the Familly etc etc lets the soil rest and back at it for awhile till i see how i go again

..
Most the old Gardenweb Familly onboard here ??...

Fusion_power · June 25, 2020

Please check my information, but I believe Grub passed away a few years ago.

I have not heard from Earl C. in about 10 years so have no idea of his status.

Carolyn passed away in June 2019 i.e. a year ago.

NCTomatoman is a frequent poster and moderator here on T'ville.

I have not heard anything from Patrina in several years though there are several dwarf tomato varieties that originated with her.

Here is a flashback to 2004.

" Volvo_54 I'm a Mad fishin Nut who's, torn between two Lovers, feelin like...whoops what am i doin???...Lol..Okay wherewazi??..
Mad fishin Nut who luvs his Fishin but needed something to kill the boredom come days off when the wind decided to take its Bat n Cricket ball n go home lol.....
Now i dont know whether my Tomato growing is interfering with my Fishing or whether my Fishing is interfering with my Tomato Growing?????...make sence???
Bit of Midlife Crisis also and a toss up between buyin a Harly..or growing Tomatos???.
Missus reckoned i should go for the tomatos lol..
And like Patrina, i also like my new Found friends

...
On second thoughts ??wander how a Harley would look parked in my vegy patch???...
Cheers
Peter"

Volvo · June 25, 2020

So SORRY to Hear about Grub and Carolyn really had no idea and time flys so fast!!..Earl and i used to email on a regular basis as did with Rosco.
As for the Harley lol bought a Van instead though only managed a couple of trips with that also as Illness hit Familly and have had the Van parked for the last few years feeling lost..
Still into my Fishing though Rivers rather than offshore due to age and a regular visit from Aurther Ritis in the spine lol..
Cheers Mate and thank you kindly for the heads up

..

Whwoz · June 25, 2020

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...highlight=grub

the above link is to the thread for Grubs passing Volvo. If you are also a Club Marine (boat insurance) member, was in their mag. Took me a little while to link the two

Volvo · June 25, 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whwoz

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...highlight=grub

the above link is to the thread for Grubs passing Volvo. If you are also a Club Marine (boat insurance) member, was in their mag. Took me a little while to link the two

Appreciate that mate but no not a Club marine member , was in the past till the membership got a tad costly and went with RACQ.
Sad

Volvo · June 30, 2020

Oekay so heres another question regarding the fermenting of seeds , due to my having experienced germination problems with seeds i have saved in the past .
How many just leave the seeds to ferment , create that fungas on the top and then clean and save and how many shake their seeds every day whilst fermenting and which do yous think is best or two bob of one and twenty cents of the other ??..
Maybe it the cooler weather but my seeds are not creating a mildew atop of the brew and i do go out now and shake the jar a tad abut do notice the seeds falling to the bottom..
Kind thanks for replies ..

Whwoz · June 30, 2020

Pull them out, sounds like they are ready

Father'sDaughter · July 1, 2020

I don't always get the mold mat, so I always go by the amount of seeds that fall to the bottom of the container. I usually start shaking/swirling after 4 of 5 days.

Volvo · July 1, 2020

Will do with the first lot i started saving see how they pan out as i have more of the same fruit to save from if they dont look the goods ey.
Thanks mate and hows the weather down your way ?? must be starting to get a tad cold by now ey ??..
Remember my younger days Hitchiking from Westernport bay (HMAS Ceberus) all the way to Wollongong N.S.W. even wearing one of those weighty duffle coats come ealry hours of the morning near the boarder standing beside of the road waiting for a lift and can tell you twas cold enough to freeze , well you know the rest of that ryhme lol.
But good memories just the same .
Nuther time left out west of the base doing a survival course middle of Winter wishing i was back on base in my warmer surrounds lol..

mcsee · July 1, 2020

I don't cover my seed/pulp while it ferments, or add water for that matter, but sometimes it gets a mould mat. I wait 3 days as a minimum then wash them the next day.

Volvo, do you bag your blossom?

Volvo · July 1, 2020

When i was full swing with my Tomatos i used to bag all the first flowers of my Heirlooms that were passed on.
With this lot i didnt as most were purchased as seedlings from the Big Green shed and others purchased online as seeds ..

After this years and the next lot that goes in the ground that ive seedblocked i def will bag the first lot of flowers ..
Will also have to try fermenting without adding water though the quantity of water ive always added was equal water to equal parts seed n pulp..

Volvo · July 1, 2020

Just came back in from the garden shed wher ethe seeds are residing in under fermentation and was going to pull them out and was but noticed some still have pulp/gell around them so thinking maybe leave for another day or two as maybe still a tad cold in the shed ??..

June 25, 2020	#19
Volvo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 289	Volvo Peter V it is my Friend and yes used to hang out in Gardenweb where i made a lot of Good Friends even if i didnt get to meet them i still classed them as Friends..Earl Rosco Grub Just to mention a few where and how they are today i would dearly like to know . Sent a PM to Grub which i noticed in an old post but no reply as yet. Those days i was dearly passionate about my Tomatos and really always have been but coupole of years of failures with little pests , illness in the Familly etc etc lets the soil rest and back at it for awhile till i see how i go again.. Most the old Gardenweb Familly onboard here ??... __________________ Good Better Best Never let It rest Until Your Good Is Better And Your Better Best

June 25, 2020	#21
Volvo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 289	So SORRY to Hear about Grub and Carolyn really had no idea and time flys so fast!!..Earl and i used to email on a regular basis as did with Rosco. As for the Harley lol bought a Van instead though only managed a couple of trips with that also as Illness hit Familly and have had the Van parked for the last few years feeling lost.. Still into my Fishing though Rivers rather than offshore due to age and a regular visit from Aurther Ritis in the spine lol.. Cheers Mate and thank you kindly for the heads up .. __________________ Good Better Best Never let It rest Until Your Good Is Better And Your Better Best

June 30, 2020	#24
Volvo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 289	Oekay so heres another question regarding the fermenting of seeds , due to my having experienced germination problems with seeds i have saved in the past . How many just leave the seeds to ferment , create that fungas on the top and then clean and save and how many shake their seeds every day whilst fermenting and which do yous think is best or two bob of one and twenty cents of the other ??.. Maybe it the cooler weather but my seeds are not creating a mildew atop of the brew and i do go out now and shake the jar a tad abut do notice the seeds falling to the bottom.. Kind thanks for replies .. __________________ Good Better Best Never let It rest Until Your Good Is Better And Your Better Best

July 1, 2020	#27
Volvo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 289	Will do with the first lot i started saving see how they pan out as i have more of the same fruit to save from if they dont look the goods ey. Thanks mate and hows the weather down your way ?? must be starting to get a tad cold by now ey ??.. Remember my younger days Hitchiking from Westernport bay (HMAS Ceberus) all the way to Wollongong N.S.W. even wearing one of those weighty duffle coats come ealry hours of the morning near the boarder standing beside of the road waiting for a lift and can tell you twas cold enough to freeze , well you know the rest of that ryhme lol. But good memories just the same . Nuther time left out west of the base doing a survival course middle of Winter wishing i was back on base in my warmer surrounds lol.. __________________ Good Better Best Never let It rest Until Your Good Is Better And Your Better Best

July 1, 2020	#29
Volvo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 289	When i was full swing with my Tomatos i used to bag all the first flowers of my Heirlooms that were passed on. With this lot i didnt as most were purchased as seedlings from the Big Green shed and others purchased online as seeds .. After this years and the next lot that goes in the ground that ive seedblocked i def will bag the first lot of flowers .. Will also have to try fermenting without adding water though the quantity of water ive always added was equal water to equal parts seed n pulp.. __________________ Good Better Best Never let It rest Until Your Good Is Better And Your Better Best

June 23, 2020	#16
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I have stored and reused hemp pollen before, by putting the pollen in a vial, then putting that vial in a small jar with uncooked rice to absorb moisture. Let it sit out of the freezer for a day before opening. Pollen is very sensitive to moisture, so I presume this method would work with seeds, too.

June 24, 2020	#17
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	I have been fermenting seeds for many years and have done the mild bleach wash and also just dried them after rinsing without the bleach treatment. I have seen no difference in the life of the seeds. I keep mine in coin envelopes in an air conditioned room and have had no trouble with germination. Some varieties are still germinating fairly good after 10 years and others seem to only be good for 4 or 5 years before the germination rate drops. I live in a very hot climate and find that three days fermenting in the heat is not usually enough to get rid of most of the gel coat on most varieties and I usually go 4 to 6 days. When a fair number of seeds start dropping to the bottom of the small jar I am fermenting in then it is usually time to clean the seeds by rinsing and pouring off the bad seed and the tomato pulp leaving the mostly good seed. I then pour them in a small strainer and rinse them under cold water and then dump them on a paper plate and separate them immediately and allow them to dry for a week or two before putting them in a coin envelope for storage. One way to save time in seed saving is to know which varieties you need to save seed from and when filling the sauce pot just squeeze the seeds out of them before putting the rest in the sauce pot. I label each jar with the variety and date I start fermentation and place the jars on the porch in the shade and check them every day. After the third day I will sometimes bump the little bottle lightly down on the shelf and see if the seeds readily start dropping to the bottom. If it is really warm then the seeds are usually ready after 4 days and sometimes in the fall when the temps are lower it may take up to 7 days. Sometimes I have left them fermenting too long and have had a fair number of them starting to germinate so if possible I try not to go beyond 5 days. By doing a number of varieties each time we are making sauce then you only have to rinse and spread seeds a few times to save a lot of different varieties in a short period of time. One other little trick to speed things up a bit is to tighten the lid well and shake the jar vigorously before loosening the lid and starting the fermenting process. This seems to help separate the seeds from the pulp a bit faster in the process. Make sure you have the lid very loose when starting the fermenting though. Tomato seed are fairly easy to save and from looking at the number that come up in the garden each spring where some random fruit has dropped to the ground and rotted. If natural fermentation is natures way of saving the seeds then it is good enough for me but however you do it try to make sure the seeds are good and dry before storing and try keeping them in air conditioned space if possible to avoid mold or germination from seed drawing moisture from the air in warm humid conditions. Bill

June 25, 2020	#18
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	Is Volvo also Peter V. who used to hang out on the gardenweb forums? The key to long term storage of tomato seed is to do each step right and keep the seed cool and dry and free from damaging insects. 1. Pick very ripe to slightly over-ripe fruit. Partially ripe fruit will usually have some viable seed, but also many that are not. Fully ripe to over-ripe fruit will usually have the best quality seed. 2. Squeeze the seed into a fermentation cup or jar and let them ferment 3 to 5 days. This is temperature dependent with higher temps making the process go faster. Temps of 68F (20C) take 5 days while temps of 86F (30C) gets the job done in 3 days. Do NOT put the seed in direct sunlight while fermenting, and do ensure the cups are covered to prevent flies laying eggs in them. 3. After fermented, wash the seed in a fine strainer until they are clean of all debris. A standard sink spray nozzle is handy for this. When the seed are clean, put them in a cup and add a tablespoon or two of bleach with 3 or 4 tablespoons of water and stir the seed. Wait 1 minute, then pour the seed into the strainer again and wash them with water until the bleach is gone. 4. Dump the seed from the strainer onto a paper plate. Do NOT use a paper towel as the seed will stick. A paper plate absorbs moisture from the seed speeding the drying process. After a few days, stir the seed to keep them from clumping. 5. Wait at least 3 weeks for the seed to dry. Your climate will play a part in the drying process with cool and/or damp climates taking a lot longer or even requiring heat as from heating the room the seed are stored in to dry. 6. When thoroughly dry, store the seed in glass jars with a cloth bag of rice to absorb moisture or if you have access to packets of moisture absorbent, put a few of them in to draw out excess moisture. 7. After the seed have stabilized in the glass jar for a week or two, put the jar in the freezer and leave it until you need seed to plant. When taken out of the freezer, the jar may accumulate moisture from the temperature difference. Let it set on a counter for about 8 hours before opening to prevent getting moisture in the jar where it can affect the seed. Some will ask why the glass jar. There are two reasons. The first is that the jar maintains stable humidity. The second is that the jar prevents external oxygen from getting to the seed. Oxygen causes seed to break down over time. I have small vials purchased on ebay a few years ago. For long term storage, I put seed in the vials, then put the vials in quart jars with labels so I know what is stored where. With this method, I can keep most tomato seed viable for at least 10 years. Did you notice this is nearly the same as RXkeith? He is also correct that heart shaped varieties tend to have less viability. I've had trouble germinating Anna Russian seed that were 3 years old while other varieties saved at the same time were viable for 10+ years. One caveat, there is a thread on tomatoes with no growing tip aka bullhead seedlings. Older seed will often produce bullheads. If you are patient, a bullhead will often produce a growing tip and turn into a viable plant.

June 25, 2020	#22
Whwoz Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 870	http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...highlight=grub the above link is to the thread for Grubs passing Volvo. If you are also a Club Marine (boat insurance) member, was in their mag. Took me a little while to link the two

July 1, 2020	#26
Father'sDaughter Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: MA/NH Border Posts: 4,919	I don't always get the mold mat, so I always go by the amount of seeds that fall to the bottom of the container. I usually start shaking/swirling after 4 of 5 days.

July 1, 2020	#28
mcsee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Victoria. Australia Posts: 543	I don't cover my seed/pulp while it ferments, or add water for that matter, but sometimes it gets a mould mat. I wait 3 days as a minimum then wash them the next day. Volvo, do you bag your blossom?