AVOID Pepper Joe's AT ALL COSTS!

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by WillysWoodPile

Small farms are exempt from USDA organic standards.

That's not entirely true. First off they are not exempt from the standards, only the need to be certified by the government. They must still follow the standards and are liable for false advertising should they market it as organic when it isn't.

And the second thing is this only applies to farmers selling 5,000 dollars a year or less organic products they produced.

[LBchilehead]

Can you believe this guy? I just called the police because he will not stop emailing me now I am scared for my safety. Truly I am scared, I have a little child at home.

[kurt]

Well at least some progress is being made with all the exposure the site(Pennys)is getting.Some images(stolen)have been removed,now everything is kinda labeled TM(although I thought a circle around was the real designation).I even saw some "backyard" solo cup gardening images.No OMRI or USDA stamps on site yet.Maybe some day Pennys site and methods will come to fruition.Pepper joes site and methods might be a challenge though.

[FILMNET]

That's right Kurt, TM is not the correct copyright mark, i posted this here. I am sure they are not using anyone else to work on this mess of a website, It the worst layout on the web. But they dont care and we should not either, they are making $. Many fish in the sea!

[flying toaster]

But... there are still things you must do. So where is the proof?

http://organic.about.com/od/organicc...-Exemption.htm

[flying toaster]

Originally Posted by Mischka

Neither Joe nor Penny have a farm, so that wouldn't apply. They are seed resellers, not seed producers. They don't grow their own seed - they buy it elsewhere and repackage and sell it to poor, unsuspecting souls that don't know any better.

True. One thing you can say for sure is that they are brilliant marketeers.
I never have cared for slimy car salesman and the like, but they sure seem to fit the mold and draw them in. I am a bit radical about organics, so anytime I see the word "organic" in the marketplace, I want proof. Because I know what that means and what the guidlines are. Many people do not know what it truly means and represents. So I still say... where is the proof?

[FILMNET]

They use the word Organic like a verb. If you listen to their videos they use the word and others so easily? They look and talk like people from a fair, selling knifes.

[flying toaster]

Yep there you go. "Carnies"

[Doug9345]

Originally Posted by FILMNET

They use the word Organic like a verb. If you listen to their videos they use with word and others so easily? They look and talk like people from a fair, selling knifes.

Essentially that's what he is, a professional pitchman. The one thing a professional pitchman doesn't do is get in an argument (I was going to use the word wrang) with a mark(customer). It wastes your time and gets in the way of your goal of selling stuff.

Part of what you are paying for when you by something from a pitchman is the entertainment. The whole thing loses its entertainment value if your are fighting with someone in the crowd.

[armac]

Lot of interesting information on this thread.

Good to see a board that is willing to stand up for ethics and moral standards.
These traits are lacking in some of the vendors we encounter in the gardening hobby.

[LBchilehead]

I did not know that gardening could not be so hot with debatable topics like Immigration and the deficit. At least I can say I am not a Internet troll.

[Tania]

Originally Posted by flying toaster

I think one angle that has been missed with respect to Penny and Joe is that fact they tag certain variaties as "organic" If something is really organic, it needs to have proof that it is certified organic, not just somebody claiming it is. Seems to me that could be potentially problematic for them if pursued....

We say on our website (and verbally when asked) that "we use organic methods to grow our fruits and seeds, but we are NOT certified organic". Therefore, we cannot put 'organic' on our seed labels, that would be a violation.

Not sure how this works in the case when someone buys certified organic seeds in bulk from another vendor and then repackages and resells - would they be able to put 'certified organic' on the label or into their catalog? And what would the proof be?

[armac]

When you buy seeds from hobby growers and give them no oversight, can you really call the seeds organic. Have you seen how these vendors get their seeeds?

[flying toaster]

My point is that simply saying "organic" proves nothing and of course, the buyer should beware and be knowledgable. But if they arent, it is possible they are buying a pig in a poke and that bothers me because there should be proof in advertising. If someone is buying certified organic and reselling, can they use the seal or even wording certified organic? Good question. But if the seller claims organic, there should be something, even a footnote. The reason I mention this is I saw P&J suggesting using miracle grow organic choice potting soil and a few other suggestions with respect to organics methods, and it made me wonder if they even really knew what that meant.

[LBchilehead]

Originally Posted by flying toaster

My point is that simply saying "organic" proves nothing and of course, the buyer should beware and be knowledgable. But if they arent, it is possible they are buying a pig in a poke and that bothers me because there should be proof in advertising. If someone is buying certified organic and reselling, can they use the seal or even wording certified organic? Good question. But if the seller claims organic, there should be something, even a footnote. The reason I mention this is I saw P&J suggesting using miracle grow organic choice potting soil and a few other suggestions with respect to organics methods, and it made me wonder if they even really knew what that meant.

Maybe want to up charge the regular stuff and fool everyone