2017 Grafting thread: Open to all

[b54red]

I just don't see the big advantage to grafting unless you are fighting a stubborn soil born disease or pest like nematodes that the root stock can give you some protection from. I really don't have much choice if I want to successfully grow heirloom type tomatoes in my garden because of the fusarium and RKN. I know some varieties do somewhat better when grafted onto the right root stock but for 8 to 10 bucks. Why not just plant a couple more?

Bill

[TechGuy]

Originally Posted by b54red

I just don't see the big advantage to grafting unless you are fighting a stubborn soil born disease or pest like nematodes that the root stock can give you some protection from.... Why not just plant a couple more?

Bill

I am growing ungrafted and grafted pairs in virgin ground as demo to compare yield and quality in hot humid conditions. If there is better quality fruit and longer yield that is bonus too. I have heard flavor and size are better too.

I am also growing grafted in previously used soil in pots and in previously used ground because in past seasons when I have put plants in the ground they have died fairly quickly. Even with a few years between crops.

My experiment with used soil (metromix 360) in pots is amazing. The ungrafted plant it all but dead and the grafted is flourishing. The photo is a couple weeks old now. The ungrafted is 95% dead.

The cost and labor of disinfecting pots loading with new soil is probably on par with the cost difference of grafting. Maybe it's a $5 difference in price for a grafted version vs buying a regular plant. If you grow more to compensate then you have added staking too.

I have 13 acres but the horses use most of it so I have limited room to plant with full sun so being able to put tomatoes anywhere I want is a relief compared to the expense of pots and new soil every year.

[jtjmartin]

Originally Posted by b54red

I don't know of any commercial growers around here that use grafted plants. It is much cheaper for them to just use those bullet proof hybrids that produce those nice pretty tasteless tomatoes that the super markets seem to prefer. Hey they can sit on the shelf for weeks without rotting. Of course they never do taste like a real ripe tomato. My wife calls them pictures of tomatoes.

Bill

Bill:

Great quote from your wife! Sometimes my wife will pick up one of "those" tomatoes when we have hamburgers. She knows that they have no taste but they just look pretty on the burger!

[AlittleSalt]

I picked up a tomato in the grocery store that was so huge that I couldn't stretch both hands around it and come anywhere close to my fingers touching - it was at least 8 inches across. It didn't smell like a tomato at all.

Bill, I think I might be fighting fusarium too - although the pictures I saw online don't look the same. My plants in a raised bed are wilting during the heat of the day.

The tomato plants out in the RKN infested garden are not wilting though. There are two Big Beef plants growing in the main garden and they look good and have tomatoes on them. The main garden is 80-90' away from raised bed - our house is in-between.

Here is what one of the wilted plant looks like now. I'm thinking if I had grafted it - it wouldn't look like this -

[b54red]

Originally Posted by TechGuy

I am growing ungrafted and grafted pairs in virgin ground as demo to compare yield and quality in hot humid conditions. If there is better quality fruit and longer yield that is bonus too. I have heard flavor and size are better too.

I am also growing grafted in previously used soil in pots and in previously used ground because in past seasons when I have put plants in the ground they have died fairly quickly. Even with a few years between crops.

My experiment with used soil (metromix 360) in pots is amazing. The ungrafted plant it all but dead and the grafted is flourishing. The photo is a couple weeks old now. The ungrafted is 95% dead.

The cost and labor of disinfecting pots loading with new soil is probably on par with the cost difference of grafting. Maybe it's a $5 difference in price for a grafted version vs buying a regular plant. If you grow more to compensate then you have added staking too.

I have 13 acres but the horses use most of it so I have limited room to plant with full sun so being able to put tomatoes anywhere I want is a relief compared to the expense of pots and new soil every year.

It sounds like you are dealing with some soil issues where the grafted plant can make a huge difference. Before I started using plants grafted onto the triple fusarium resistant root stock the majority of my plants would die before they could produce more than a couple of ripe tomatoes and many died within a month of plant out. Now TSWV, spider mites and late blight are the things I worry the most about. The past five years the majority of plants that I lose are to TSWV; but some will fall to spider mites in a dry summer and gray mold in a wet one.

Bill

[b54red]

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

I picked up a tomato in the grocery store that was so huge that I couldn't stretch both hands around it and come anywhere close to my fingers touching - it was at least 8 inches across. It didn't smell like a tomato at all.

Bill, I think I might be fighting fusarium too - although the pictures I saw online don't look the same. My plants in a raised bed are wilting during the heat of the day.

The tomato plants out in the RKN infested garden are not wilting though. There are two Big Beef plants growing in the main garden and they look good and have tomatoes on them. The main garden is 80-90' away from raised bed - our house is in-between.

Here is what one of the wilted plant looks like now. I'm thinking if I had grafted it - it wouldn't look like this -

Salt I can't tell much from that picture. Usually you get some yellowing on one stem low down and moving up fairly steadily as the first sign of fusarium. Sometimes just removing that stem will delay the worst for quite a while. If you have a healthy looking green plant wilting in the mid day heat it could be several things like poor root development from too much watering the first few weeks after setting it out, damaged roots, damage to the main stem, too little water, nematodes, and worst of all Bacterial Wilt.

If you can post a few pictures of the whole plants from top to bottom or at least the bottom portion of the plant I might be able to tell more about it. If it is nematodes you know the only way to tell for sure is to pull one up and check the roots. If the roots look healthy and the plant has good soil moisture then you might be dealing with Bacterial wilt. It usually shows up after some serious heavy rain in hot weather with very warm soil. At least that has been my experience but hopefully that is not the case. Watering will not help a plant that has Bacterial Wilt but for a short while it can help plants with nematodes until they get too bad for it to do any good. With fusarium you should see some definite yellowing and to check the plant for that cut off the stem with the yellowing and see if the interior has a brownish color or dark yellowish color in it. That is a pretty good indicator of fusarium wilt.

Bill

[zipcode]

Originally Posted by TechGuy

My experiment with used soil (metromix 360) in pots is amazing. The ungrafted plant it all but dead and the grafted is flourishing. The photo is a couple weeks old now. The ungrafted is 95% dead.

This looks like one of those bizzare advertisements that everyone knows are fake. Unless the soil is infected with something like fusarium, nematodes, etc (which it shouldn't considering it's potting mix, in a pot), there's no way this can be because it's ungrafted. I use 90% same potting mix since 6 years ago (it was used every year) and my new plants are thriving, like usual.

[Father'sDaughter]

I have had problems with fusarium in grow bags because it's apparently in my native soil. The bags usually sit on the ground and it takes no time for the roots to find their way out the drain holes and into the native soil. So yes, it is very possible to see these diseases in containers.

I am not grafting my dwarf project plants which will be grown in bags, and this year they will be re-located to the edge of our paved driveway for this very reason. I haven't told my husband where they are going yet, but I did get him to watch Craig's (nctomatoman) video where he shows how he takes over much of his driveway for his grow bags. A dozen dwarf plants along one edge is nothing compared to that!

[zipcode]

You should add something between the pots and the soil then. Me on the balcony, since I don't want it to get dirty, use these big plastic 'saucers' or whatever they are called, of course that does add to the price but they keep about 4-5 years before they start breaking.
Not much advantage growing in containers if you let the soil diseases go into them.

[Cole_Robbie]

I saw the link on page 2 for the clips. What other supplies do I need? My hummert catalog has a lot of wax/paste, wound-heal products, but maybe those are meant for tree grafting? Do you cut the stems with a knife? I looked at grafting knives, but they just look like pocket knives to me.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I saw the link on page 2 for the clips. What other supplies do I need? My hummert catalog has a lot of wax/paste, wound-heal products, but maybe those are meant for tree grafting? Do you cut the stems with a knife? I looked at grafting knives, but they just look like pocket knives to me.

For making the grafting cuts when grafting tomatoes the best thing I have found is using the old fashioned and relatively cheap double edged razor blades. I take one and clip it in half with scissors or clippers and that way it is less likely to cut me when using it. use one half of the razor blade until it stops cutting cleanly and then use the other half.

Bill

[jtjmartin]

Cole Robbie:

Here is the list I put together from Bill and BVV for my first year of grafting:

1. GRAFTING CLIPS
silicon grafting clips from 1.5mm to 3mm

https://hydro-gardens.com/?s=tomato+grafting+clips


2. LARGE COARSE GRAIN DE (Diatomacious Earth)
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...and+Search_MTA
for rooting the newly grafted plant

3. SMALL GRAIN DE
for starting the rootstock and scion seedlings

4. HEALING CHAMBER
Walmart has the clear plastic totes

5. Spray bottle for misting the top of the healing chamber

[Father'sDaughter]

As a new grafter, my shopping list was:

Rootstock seeds
Grafting clips
Humidity domes for 1020 trays (already had the trays)
Razor blades (the double-edged ones mentioned above)
Skewers for supporting the grafted plants
Optisorb/course DE (already had the fine Ultrasorb)
A few dozen eggs packed in either plastic or styrofoam (eat the eggs, save the cartons for seed starting)

Only thing I'll have to re-purchase next year is rootstock seed. Everything else is re-usable except for the razor blades, but I bought a box of 100 for about $10, so I'm good for a while.

And if your blades come individually wrapped in paper, you can just break them in half before unwrapping them.

Welcome to the party!

[b54red]

I am sure to have a bad experience soon. I have had too much success with my grafting lately. I really can't believe how lucky I have been. And no I don't think I am just getting that good. The last couple of times I did a few batches of grafts it would start raining and cool off just as I needed to remove the tops of the healing chambers and those conditions just make success so much more likely. Usually this time of the year when I remove the tops the plants really suffer from the heat or if they are in the greenhouse with the air conditioner they suffer from the humidity being pulled out by the air conditioner. I am always prepared this time of the year for 50% to 75% losses but lately I am still batting over 90% which is unreal. I gave away over 40 plants in the past few days because I had so many extras. I only needed 16 plants for my last planting so expecting really high losses I did over 60 grafts and only lost a couple. I just removed the tops on my last two batches of grafts for my late May or early June plant out. Of the 48 or so plants it looks like I will probably lose one or two for sure but then I only will need about 18 plants. I guess I'll be trying to find anyone else who wants to try growing tomatoes in the late summer heat but at least the varieties are mostly ones that tend to produce some tomatoes despite the heat. I still need to start the seeds for my last batch which will be for late July and fall production. I will still do lots of extras because it doesn't cost much and despite my recent good luck I sure can't count on it.

I know my luck will turn but it sure is nice to feel so good about something for a little while anyway.

Bill

[Father'sDaughter]

Bill, I'm glad you're continuing to have such success! But I know what you mean about waiting for the luck to run out... mine went into the ground on Sunday and I still keep waiting for some disaster to strike.

Sunday afternoon was warm and sunny and a few of the plants were looking a bit limp by the time I got them all in the ground and tied to their stakes. Yesterday was cool and wet, and by the time I got home from work they had all perked back up and were looking good.

After my husband adopted six of my grafted plants, I still have about 15 that need a home. I think I'm taking them on a ride to mom and dad's this weekend to introduce dad to grafted tomatoes.