AVOID Pepper Joe's AT ALL COSTS!

[carolyn137]

Thanks to both of you.

Let's hope that Amazon does something about it. After all my book is still listed with Amazon and if they know my full name they can check out the many reviews on that page.

Considering the message sites that I visit, save one, I don't think it would come as a surprise to send links to other sites to seewho was involved.

Carolyn

[doublehelix]

I too have stayed out of this discussion because quite frankly, I don't have "a dog in this fight" as they say. But these clowns love to pick on women and I can't let that slide.

I see this whole thing is still being fueled by the cretin in Michigan. He makes me laugh.

The funniest thing I have read in a long time is where he calls Mischka a "megomaniac". I am sure he meant to say Megalomaniac since in the very next nonsensical set of sentence fragments he totally defines megalomania by saying :

"Well number one we have another tomato forum and it is sucessful,2..we have started projects and threads never before done in the history of tomatoes, with our new inovative colorchart that will soon be an industry standard we are miles above anything to come down the pike in the last 100 years, so, jealousy is an absolute in this mix."

So, lets see, "Darth" goes from never having grown a tomato prior to 2009 to being the greatest thing to come along in the history agriculture. That's quite a leap.


Also, I want to address the relevance of Carolyn Male. Her book is the gold standard of heirloom tomatoes and always will be. That alone should be enough to negate anything these morons have to say. But there is so much more. She consistently helps new growers that come into this hobby. She freely gives her time to help just about anyone who asks of her.

She has in fact given these people that are trying to malign her more second chances than they ever could deserve.

Still not enough? I am a professional grower and a plant breeder. I have pulled my hair out trying to figure out the make up of Sungold as have others. Just last week someone was talking about red fruit growing from saved F2 Sungold seed. In the world of tomato genetics it is impossible for a red tomato to come from a tangerine colored tomato like Sungold, and yet it happens. I can't figure it out.

Enter the "pathetic" Carolyn Male who offers up this explanation.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Genes in the DNA have a leader sequence ( start) and termination sequence( Stop)

Some genes are transcribed from the DNA, translated into protein and serve as repressor proteins, or blocker proteins if you will, b/c they don't allow for some specific genes to be transcribed by sitting on the leader sequence.

None of us know which specific genes from S. pimpinellifolium are inserted into the breeding lines of Sungold F1, but surely some pigment genes are since saved F2 seeds and volunteers can give red fruited plants.

What if in the F1 those red pigment genes are repressed by the molecules I just described, thus the F1 would not give red fruits if the F1 seeds are true Sungold F1. Yet the flat truss genes would be expressed.

But with saved seeds and volunteers, genetic segregation eliminates the genes for certain pimp pigment gene repressor molecules
in some selections thus sometimes red fruited plants pop up.

How does that do it for you?

Carolyn

To me that explains it. I did NOT think of that and neither did anyone else that I know of.


So, ask yourself this: Should I trust a hateful, illiterate moron that can't seem to ever be honest about anything, or should I listen to a published author with a PhD that always has the time to be kind and helpful?

Hmmm...

The day Dr. Carolyn Male stops being relevant will be the day I quit doing any of this.

Last word is to some of the above posters that still go over to Slaters message board. Why would you associate with people that pick on women every chance they get and are this hateful? Get off the fence.

[carolyn137]

Steve, I get the impression you like me.

I like you too except when I see on the weather channel that there are tornados in your area, am concerned about you, e-mail you and you don't e-mail me back until long after any power outages would have been restored and then sometimes not at all.

The other night I wanted to answer Bill Jeffers in that Sungold thread, saw that tornados were headed his way, told him so online here after the fact, and he said they came close but didn't hit his house, etc.

Maybe I should just watch nothing but the Weather Channel and have ready to go a general e-mail to send out to those with flooding, tornados and the like/

But if I watched nothing but the Weather Channel, that might work, but then I'd miss my tennis, the Food Channel, PBS, Discovery Channel,etc/

Carolyn

[Calcat36]

"A direct insult to my friend Carolyn is a slap in the face to me.
I don't take kindly to the words I read in the review not one bit."

As are all of the negative comments. What comes around...

[chancethegardener]

I keep Carolyn's book by my bed. I don't know how many times I have turned its pages and read the same descriptions as if I had never done.

One doesn't get to the point of writing such a book over night. He/she has to develop certain skills built upon their education, gain experience, and professional reputation, and when they get to that point, they receive a lot of pressure from the people in the field of expertise and in their lives: "But what are you still waiting for to write a book on tomatoes?"

There is one more point I think needs to be emphasized: Academic degrees often make people feel like they are living in a bubble and they are untouchable. It is obvious that Carolyn, having a PhD (I think in microbiology), has touched many people outside university and passed her knowledge and experience to hobbyists and professional growers. I sincerely appreciate this.

[Sun City Linda]

Originally Posted by doublehelix

I too have stayed out of this discussion because quite frankly, I don't have "a dog in this fight" as they say. But these clowns love to pick on women and I can't let that slide.

I see this whole thing is still being fueled by the cretin in Michigan. He makes me laugh.

The funniest thing I have read in a long time is where he calls Mischka a "megomaniac". I am sure he meant to say Megalomaniac since in the very next nonsensical set of sentence fragments he totally defines megalomania by saying :

"Well number one we have another tomato forum and it is sucessful,2..we have started projects and threads never before done in the history of tomatoes, with our new inovative colorchart that will soon be an industry standard we are miles above anything to come down the pike in the last 100 years, so, jealousy is an absolute in this mix."

So, lets see, "Darth" goes from never having grown a tomato prior to 2009 to being the greatest thing to come along in the history agriculture. That's quite a leap.


Also, I want to address the relevance of Carolyn Male. Her book is the gold standard of heirloom tomatoes and always will be. That alone should be enough to negate anything these morons have to say. But there is so much more. She consistently helps new growers that come into this hobby. She freely gives her time to help just about anyone who asks of her.

She has in fact given these people that are trying to malign her more second chances than they ever could deserve.

Still not enough? I am a professional grower and a plant breeder. I have pulled my hair out trying to figure out the make up of Sungold as have others. Just last week someone was talking about red fruit growing from saved F2 Sungold seed. In the world of tomato genetics it is impossible for a red tomato to come from a tangerine colored tomato like Sungold, and yet it happens. I can't figure it out.

Enter the "pathetic" Carolyn Male who offers up this explanation.

To me that explains it. I did NOT think of that and neither did anyone else that I know of.


So, ask yourself this: Should I trust a hateful, illiterate moron that can't seem to ever be honest about anything, or should I listen to a published author with a PhD that always has the time to be kind and helpful?

Hmmm...

The day Dr. Carolyn Male stops being relevant will be the day I quit doing any of this.

Last word is to some of the above posters that still go over to Slaters message board. Why would you associate with people that pick on women every chance they get and are this hateful? Get off the fence.

This is one great post!

[simmran1]

Yep,

A BIG Amen to Steve. Could not have expressed my (or 'our') sentiments any better.

Obviously Penny and Joe have never actually read the book that they so aptly disdain.

[loulac]

If Carolyn’s book was obsolete I suppose it wouldn’t cost about 40$ secondhand and wouldn’t be looked for in Europe and considered here as a reference in 2013.

[mari.beth]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

.....Of course its dated b'c I had to chose the varieties to be photographed in 1997, did a growout in 98 to be sure I had fresh seed for the 1998 growout when photography would be done.

And yes, at that time I'd only grown about 1200 varieties and now it's well over 3K varieties.

I described the whole process in detail in the thread where Craig L ( nctomatoman) was asking for help with his book and commented that he didnt know I got done all I did....

Carolyn

Carolyn,
After reading comments about the book on here, I checked out a copy from the local library. I am enjoying it tremendously and hope to acquire a copy of my own. It seems to me (newbie) that many of the varieties in the book are the most popular still today, so I do not get the comments made on Amazon about it being "OLD and OUTDATED". I would love to know some of your top choices you would include if you were to do another edition after more than doubling the varieties you have grown. This might be in another thread (I could not find your post in nctomatoman's thread, but will keep looking) and I understand if you do not want to answer, but I am curious (i.e., nosy ).

Mari Beth

[clkeiper]

Originally Posted by loulac

If Carolyn’s book was obsolete I suppose it wouldn’t cost about 40$ secondhand and wouldn’t be looked for in Europe and considered here as a reference in 2013.

Originally Posted by simmran1

Yep,

A BIG Amen to Steve. Could not have expressed my (or 'our') sentiments any better.

Obviously Penny and Joe have never actually read the book that they so aptly disdain.

Originally Posted by doublehelix

I too have stayed out of this discussion because quite frankly, I don't have "a dog in this fight" as they say. But these clowns love to pick on women and I can't let that slide.

I see this whole thing is still being fueled by the cretin in Michigan. He makes me laugh.

The funniest thing I have read in a long time is where he calls Mischka a "megomaniac". I am sure he meant to say Megalomaniac since in the very next nonsensical set of sentence fragments he totally defines megalomania by saying :

"Well number one we have another tomato forum and it is sucessful,2..we have started projects and threads never before done in the history of tomatoes, with our new inovative colorchart that will soon be an industry standard we are miles above anything to come down the pike in the last 100 years, so, jealousy is an absolute in this mix."

So, lets see, "Darth" goes from never having grown a tomato prior to 2009 to being the greatest thing to come along in the history agriculture. That's quite a leap.


Also, I want to address the relevance of Carolyn Male. Her book is the gold standard of heirloom tomatoes and always will be. That alone should be enough to negate anything these morons have to say. But there is so much more. She consistently helps new growers that come into this hobby. She freely gives her time to help just about anyone who asks of her.

She has in fact given these people that are trying to malign her more second chances than they ever could deserve.

Still not enough? I am a professional grower and a plant breeder. I have pulled my hair out trying to figure out the make up of Sungold as have others. Just last week someone was talking about red fruit growing from saved F2 Sungold seed. In the world of tomato genetics it is impossible for a red tomato to come from a tangerine colored tomato like Sungold, and yet it happens. I can't figure it out.

Enter the "pathetic" Carolyn Male who offers up this explanation.

To me that explains it. I did NOT think of that and neither did anyone else that I know of.


So, ask yourself this: Should I trust a hateful, illiterate moron that can't seem to ever be honest about anything, or should I listen to a published author with a PhD that always has the time to be kind and helpful?

Hmmm...

The day Dr. Carolyn Male stops being relevant will be the day I quit doing any of this.

Last word is to some of the above posters that still go over to Slaters message board. Why would you associate with people that pick on women every chance they get and are this hateful? Get off the fence.

There needs to be a LIKE button for some of these excellent observations and thoughts that are expressed. No need for us to retype exactly what others are thinking. Just "like" them...Some of you have such a great way of adding such nice and positive thoughts and supporting a fellow member who should have no need to be attacked with such nonsense.

You ROCK, Carolyn...(from the last of the carolyn's).

[Rockporter]

Originally Posted by clkeiper

There needs to be a LIKE button for some of these excellent observations and thoughts that are expressed. No need for us to retype exactly what others are thinking. Just "like" them...Some of you have such a great way of adding such nice and positive thoughts and supporting a fellow member who should have no need to be attacked with such nonsense.

You ROCK, Carolyn...(from the last of the carolyn's).

Tomatoes Up!!!

[neoguy]

+1

Originally Posted by clkeiper

There needs to be a LIKE button for some of these excellent observations and thoughts that are expressed. No need for us to retype exactly what others are thinking. Just "like" them...Some of you have such a great way of adding such nice and positive thoughts and supporting a fellow member who should have no need to be attacked with such nonsense.

You ROCK, Carolyn...(from the last of the carolyn's).

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by mari.beth

Carolyn,
After reading comments about the book on here, I checked out a copy from the local library. I am enjoying it tremendously and hope to acquire a copy of my own. It seems to me (newbie) that many of the varieties in the book are the most popular still today, so I do not get the comments made on Amazon about it being "OLD and OUTDATED". I would love to know some of your top choices you would include if you were to do another edition after more than doubling the varieties you have grown. This might be in another thread (I could not find your post in nctomatoman's thread, but will keep looking) and I understand if you do not want to answer, but I am curious (i.e., nosy ).

Mari Beth

Mari-Beth, many many persons have asked the same question as you, as in what if I were to do a second 100, or please list your top choice or your top 5 or 10, or whatever.

I've never done that for anyone and still won't.

What I personally like I know some others might not like. Varieties perform differently for folks depending on many many variables.

Besides, with every season there are new ones to be considered. Since I had to use the walker and could no longer grow the hundreds of plants and varieties that I used to I decided to concentrate on growing varieties new to most or all folks. My job was to find the seeds and then several folks did and still do,seed production. Some were grown here at home by Freda, for me, but not enough room to grow ALL that were being grown that season, actually far from it.

What folks have encouraged me to do is to write a book on the histories of some that I do like, and I think about that, or at least I did, and then I go read a good book, or watch some tennis on TV or whatever.

The varieties in my book were NOT all personal faves as I noted in the introduction where I said that I wanted to feature different types, as in heirlooms, some that were bred, some that were older varieties that were not heirlooms, but there are still some folks that think I loved all of them.

NOT/

I wrote about one variety and my editor John said why are you writing so negatively about it? I hadn't realized it sounded so negative, but it was at that time a popular variety and still is, which is why I included it, but still, I personally didn't like it.

Carolyn

[mari.beth]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Mari-Beth, many many persons have asked the same question as you, as in what if I were to do a second 100, or please list your top choice or your top 5 or 10, or whatever.

I've never done that for anyone and still won't.

What I personally like I know some others might not like. Varieties perform differently for folks depending on many many variables.

Besides, with every season there are new ones to be considered. Since I had to use the walker and could no longer grow the hundreds of plants and varieties that I used to I decided to concentrate on growing varieties new to most or all folks. My job was to find the seeds and then several folks did and still do,seed production. Some were grown here at home by Freda, for me, but not enough room to grow ALL that were being grown that season, actually far from it.

What folks have encouraged me to do is to write a book on the histories of some that I do like, and I think about that, or at least I did, and then I go read a good book, or watch some tennis on TV or whatever.

The varieties in my book were NOT all personal faves as I noted in the introduction where I said that I wanted to feature different types, as in heirlooms, some that were bred, some that were older varieties that were not heirlooms, but there are still some folks that think I loved all of them.

NOT/

I wrote about one variety and my editor John said why are you writing so negatively about it? I hadn't realized it sounded so negative, but it was at that time a popular variety and still is, which is why I included it, but still, I personally didn't like it.

Carolyn

Thanks for the response. I figured I was not the first to ask! I have to admit to reading backwards. I got all hyped up over the tomatoes so I skimmed the intro with plans to go back and jumped right into reading about the varieties. I do find it interesting and surprising that there were some you did not like. I think some descriptions sound somewhat more enthusiastic than others, but I have not picked up on any that gave me that impression. I am going to pay closer attention now! A book on the history of some varieties would be fascinating, but I understand about enjoying other endeavors in lieu of writing (kind of like I should be focusing on some article manuscripts to ensure I make tenure instead of obsessively reading Tomatoville forums!!)

Mari Beth

[simmran1]

Arditi’s views…

http://www.amazon.com/Smith-Hawken-H...owViewpoints=0

Just so you know-
Pepper Joes and Penny’s Tomatoes are synergistic businesses… cross-pollinating if you will.

I don’t doubt the cross-pollinating; but there is no mention of re-naming heirlooms, no mention of negative book reviews, just Tomatoville member slammin’ and sterile threats:

link removed - M.

So… down with Mischka for what?
For providing a forum for the best-of-the-best gardeners opinions to be heard?
For providing reader and seed purchaser opinions?


Craig, We are here for you, as you are here for us, thanks,
Randy in Iowa