Huh? True Black Brandywine

[dice]

How does the DTM of True Black Brandywine compare
to the DTM of pink Brandywine? Earlier, about the same,
later?

[cdntomato]

I find it curious, the need to defend William Woys Weaver and his work (and note again please, critique of the latter does not imply critique of the former). In a world that has built formidable industries out of reviewing theater, film, restaurants and books, why this 'sacred cow'? I don't believe that anyone here is being malicious (with the exception of that one posting which was deleted, although NOT at my request, thus leaving my last posting rather dangling).

Case in point: If new material remains of a dinosaur/neolithic grave/Late Terminal Woodland midden are found, you can bet your last dollar that much commentary and many interpretations, some conflicting, will result. The niceness of the persons involved is irrelevant; the pursuit of truth is paramount.

I will say that my introduction to W3's work, to which I referred earlier, had nothing to do with tomatoes. The historian in question lined up the references cited in W3's book and asked me if I would or could draw the same conclusions. My introduction was blunt to say the least, and preceded meeting Carolyn and co. by many years. I respect Tom's and others' differing opinions and appreciate Tom's posts particularly. I reserve my democratic right to ask politely after the veracity of William Woys Weaver's work.

And Gere, this is an international forum, graciously hosted as it happens by a person from the USA. Please note that if you wish us to work as 'friends, Americans, and researchers', then my only choice is to act as a researcher, not having have the pleasure of being introduced to you as yet.

Thank you,
Jennifer

[Fusion_power]

I hesitate to even step into this quagmire.

The human side of this is that we are all? human and we do make mistakes. The stringent and accurate side says that accuracy in descriptions is very important from a historical perspective. From my perspective, what matters most is whether or not a tomato tastes good when properly prepared.

Is W3 a nice guy? I'm sure he is. Has he published some obvious inaccuracies? Yes, and they are fairly significant. Is it something to argue over? Not really, just understand where he is coming from and take it with a grain of salt.

DarJones

[3 Olives]

Is anyone growing it? If so, how was the germination? Just curious - someone sent me some seeds and I can't decide if I want to try them.

[dice]

I would be curious about the lateness of it, grown
side by side with a generic pink Brandywine.

If TBB is earlier, that could be a result of selection
by the person that grew TBB out to a stable OP
cultivar, but I would suspect that it is a cross with
some more modern dark-fruited cultivar , most of
which are earlier than Brandywine.

If it is about the same, that means pretty much nothing.

If it is later than Brandywine, that would lend weight to
the assertion that a selection from a mid-19th century cultivar
like Fiji is a direct parent.

[carolyn137]

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...498867.html?10

For those of you who don't read at GW for one reason or another, above I've linked to a current thread there.

Note Bill's (Papa Vic here at Tville) description of the plant and the fruits, and he says it definitiely is not maroon, and says the color is a dusky pink with dark greenish/browish shoulders which can be found on several varieties.

I thought this might interest some of you.

Gary, I'm wondering why you didn't chime in here on this one b'c apparently you also grew it last summer.

[VGary]

“Bill, just curious but how did Gary get seeds for this last year when Jere only listed it in the 2008 catalog? Maybe he asked for new variety seeds in return for Granny Cantrell, or similar. Just a thought.”
**********
I have shared a number of Heirloom Tomato varieties with Baker Creek and Southern Exposure Seed Exchange directly and indirectly My dear friends, Merlyn and Mary Ann Niedens, have grown and are growing varieties I pass along to them for trial. They have introduced the “Granny Cantrell’s” German, Atkinson, Hazelfield Farm Red, and have others this season being grown for release this year and next..

I am recovering from a full day spent in Cincinnati at the CHOPTAG Plant Exchange. This is the energizer which gets me started for a summer of growing Heirloom Tomatoes! All these good folks just keep growing on you year after year like family and provide the cream of the crop tomato seedlings with such generosity. We had outsiders wander by and they were rewarded with tomatoes as well! The Tomato Tasting is even better! COME JOIN US!


I knew this Thread had been started and visited several times, but I am not a Daniel and don’t venture into the “lions” den often! I was not aware of a thread at GW as I go there infrequently.


In January of 2007 the folks at Baker Creek kindly shared a few seed of the True Black Brandywine with me; they indicated that William Woys Weaver had shared seed with them and plans were for it to be grown and listed in the 2008 catalog.
I germinated a number of the seed without difficulty and had some spare plants which I shared with a select few folks who I knew would enjoy growing them. I sent Bill a variety of seedlings last spring because he has been so generous in sharing with me. Germination was very good and my saved seed from the TBB did extremely well this season with germination.


Before responding to this thread, I checked the few seedlings I have ready for planting. They are a good healthy/strong potato leaf plant and are ready for planting. True Black Brandywine is an indeterminate, midseason, good flavor, with several buds to a truss, medium plus size fruit, with dark deep pink to purple tomatoes. Shoulders have a bronzy/green/purple coloration similar to Cherokee Chocolate. 2007 growing season was hot and dry and production was low on most all my varieties; I am growing the TBB again this year in hopes of a bountiful season on it and all my tomatoes!
Gary

[3 Olives]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...498867.html?10

For those of you who don't read at GW for one reason or another, above I've linked to a current thread there.

Note Bill's (Papa Vic here at Tville) description of the plant and the fruits, and he says it definitiely is not maroon, and says the color is a dusky pink with dark greenish/browish shoulders which can be found on several varieties.

I thought this might interest some of you.

Gary, I'm wondering why you didn't chime in here on this one b'c apparently you also grew it last summer.

It's really none of your business why Gary didn't "chime in" and you shouldn't be calling him out. Gary's a great guy - enough said.

[3 Olives]

Originally Posted by VGary

“Bill, just curious but how did Gary get seeds for this last year when Jere only listed it in the 2008 catalog? Maybe he asked for new variety seeds in return for Granny Cantrell, or similar. Just a thought.”
**********
I have shared a number of Heirloom Tomato varieties with Baker Creek and Southern Exposure Seed Exchange directly and indirectly My dear friends, Merlyn and Mary Ann Niedens, have grown and are growing varieties I pass along to them for trial. They have introduced the “Granny Cantrell’s” German, Atkinson, Hazelfield Farm Red, and have others this season being grown for release this year and next..

I am recovering from a full day spent in Cincinnati at the CHOPTAG Plant Exchange. This is the energizer which gets me started for a summer of growing Heirloom Tomatoes! All these good folks just keep growing on you year after year like family and provide the cream of the crop tomato seedlings with such generosity. We had outsiders wander by and they were rewarded with tomatoes as well! The Tomato Tasting is even better! COME JOIN US!


I knew this Thread had been started and visited several times, but I am not a Daniel and don’t venture into the “lions” den often! I was not aware of a thread at GW as I go there infrequently.


In January of 2007 the folks at Baker Creek kindly shared a few seed of the True Black Brandywine with me; they indicated that William Woys Weaver had shared seed with them and plans were for it to be grown and listed in the 2008 catalog.
I germinated a number of the seed without difficulty and had some spare plants which I shared with a select few folks who I knew would enjoy growing them. I sent Bill a variety of seedlings last spring because he has been so generous in sharing with me. Germination was very good and my saved seed from the TBB did extremely well this season with germination.


Before responding to this thread, I checked the few seedlings I have ready for planting. They are a good healthy/strong potato leaf plant and are ready for planting. True Black Brandywine is an indeterminate, midseason, good flavor, with several buds to a truss, medium plus size fruit, with dark deep pink to purple tomatoes. Shoulders have a bronzy/green/purple coloration similar to Cherokee Chocolate. 2007 growing season was hot and dry and production was low on most all my varieties; I am growing the TBB again this year in hopes of a bountiful season on it and all my tomatoes!
Gary

Gary - You don't have to "chime in". You are beyond answering to carolyn.

[carolyn137]

Gary - You don't have to "chime in". You are beyond answering to carolyn.

*****

It wasn't quite that way 3 Olives.

I PMed Gary after recently finding out that he had grown TBB last year and I thought it would be useful to those who have been asking this year what it might be like.

Gary PMed me back and explained why he hadn't been able to post his experience with it lately.

He had complete freedom not to post but elected to do so.

And I've known Gary for many years and agree that he's a great guy as well.

Thanks Gary for sharing your experience with TBB which gives folks at least two reports, yours and Bill's.

[VGary]

3Olive, I really had not visited this thread for some days/weeks and didn't think I could add anything to the discussion at that time. Carolyn e-mailed me and informed me that Bill had shared information about the TBB I had shared with him last season and that he had commented on the the growing habit etc. I was only to happy to share any other helpful information to growers here.
I had the opportunity of talking this evening with Merlyn Niedens about other matters; I asked him about his production experience with TBB since he grew a large number of plants to seed for Baker Creek and he commented that it was extremely productive and a very healthy plant variety.
All good wishes for a bountiful garden of tomatoes to each of you this season!
Gary

[Wi-sunflower]

I realize I'm late to this thread, but I'm a new member here.

I have a question about the Black Brandywine that is in more widespread availability than this TBB. Is BB supposed to be RL or PL ??

I ask because when I first grew a BB (about 5 or so years ago) it was a PL. At that time I think, but am not sure, I got the seed from Totally Tomatoes.

A year later I got some BB seed from Meyers seed and it was a RL. Last year when I ordered more BB from TT the seed produced a RL.

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to save seeds from the PL BB that I had originally gotten.

I didn't know about the history of BB being from Seeds by Design and just assumed that since original Brandywine and Yellow Brandywine were PL that anything else with Brandywine in the name should be a PL.

[carolyn137]

I didn't know about the history of BB being from Seeds by Design and just assumed that since original Brandywine and Yellow Brandywine were PL that anything else with Brandywine in the name should be a PL.

****

The cross that occured in the growing fields of Seeds by Design between Brandywine and an unknown black gave rise to a selection called Black Brandywine that is PL and that's the one that's been in circulation for quite a few years now.

No, not all varieties with Brandywine in the name are PL.

The original heirlooms of Brandywine and Yellow Brandywine are PL but Red Brandywine is completely different and is RL.

There are quite a few varieties that have brandywine as part of the name, some are PL and some are RL and most of them arose from natural crossing and selection from the growout of that hybrid. And I think one was the result of mutation.

There's lots of wrong Red Brandywine out there that's PL, not RL, and in one case at TGS there's an RL RB that isn't RB at all. Linda continues to offer it b'c so many folks like it, whatever it is.

[Wi-sunflower]

OK good to know what it SHOULD be.

Now that neither of my regular sources have a PL BB, does anyone know who does have a PL BB, the Seeds by Design one, not the TBB.

Thanks

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Wi-sunflower

OK good to know what it SHOULD be.

Now that neither of my regular sources have a PL BB, does anyone know who does have a PL BB, the Seeds by Design one, not the TBB.

Thanks

I was going to suggest TGS b'c they were the first to offer BB, but when I looked they didn't seem to be carrying now and I don't know if it will be in the updated 2009 website or catalog.

Other than that I found several places offering it via Google and I suppose that if you checked them to see if it's a PL that might work.

When I look in my SSE YEarbooks, seeds for SSE members only, everyone was offering the PL one initially and then an RL crept in but there are still some offering the PL.

I think it was mentioned in a post above but for many BB has been genetically unstable and it throws plants that are similar to Black from Tula and another one, I forget the leaf form, that's been characterized by a friend of mine as having fruits that are a bag of seeds.