Tomato Plant Ripoff. - Page 3

Worth1 · March 22, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by whistech

Worth, you may want to check out your local Ace Hardware store if you have one close. The one close to where I live has 10 to 12 inch tall tomato and pepper plants for $1.59 each. The only tomato plant I bought was Black Krim because I have heard good things about them.

The Ace Hardware store is about 20 miles away and right next to the nursery I am trying to avoid.

Thanks I have all of the beds planted and I dont need anymore plants.

I did plane some older cucumber and grey squash seeds though.

Worth

March 23, 2015

I got a few of those HEB plants in Bastrop this year. They had a nice selection, from a farm not too far away. I also got a few up at Bloomers in Elgin, which are usually his own selection of starts. I walked through his greenhouse about 3 weeks ago, and it was just full of maters and peppers, all about 1-2 inches tall. I also ventured in for the Johnson Backyard Garden plant sale early this month. I got my last few plants there, and they have a very nice setup. It's off 71 about halfway to Austin. I like my plants this year, though I have fewer overall varieties, I have the same amount of plants. I do agree with the Home Depot and Lowes crap. Those plants are a huge ripoff for the most part. If you find exactly what you need, it might be okay, but 3-4 bucks for a single plant is pretty steep.

drew51 · March 24, 2015

On growth regulators

The show I heard was not talking about flowers, it was about tomatoes. I listen to so many of them, I don't remember what show it was? Else i would point you at it. . OK, if they do not can you explain why us experienced growers cannot get the plants to produce?
http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/files/reposi...5p19-68529.pdf

http://www.gpnmag.com/sumagic-and-tomato-transplants

Appears they most certainly do use regulators.

gssgarden · March 24, 2015

We have a GREAT Mom and Pop hardware 3 miles away that always has both six packs and quart size. 6 packs RULE!!

Greg

feldon30 · March 24, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by clkeiper

Can anyone say definitively that they use these products on vegetable plants?

I know someone who worked at Bonnie's and she told me they spray growth inhibitors to get the plants to stay small and stocky.

I haven't had the same problems others do with not getting production out of Bonnie's plants. They produce just fine for me. Unfortunately there is just 1 decent place for plants within 30 miles of me.

frdlturner · March 24, 2015

the reason prices are so high at big box stores and larger nurseries is that a couple of years ago there was a surplus in plants both large and small and with the market for plants went down a bit they decided to kill off a lot of the inventory so that there would be a shortage and they could charge higher prices and these higher pricing has not started the ladt few years with vegetables.

Tracydr · March 24, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

I buy a few plants at the local flea market each year. They are always large mature plants that guarantee me early tomatoes. They usually sell for about $2.50 each and are often about 18" to 24" tall. They will be blooming and/or have small tomatoes already set. Everything else is from seed that I germinate.

In the last 7 years, I have purchased one Bonnie Plants tomato plant. It was a Big Boy and came with a bonus of Bacterial Spec. Don't ask me about Bonnie Plants. No matter who sells them, it is my considered opinion, based on my personal experience, that they are always bad news. I only wish we could litigate the situation when suppliers send us things that destroy all of our hard work.

Wasn't Bonnie plants where the bad outbreak of late blight from a few years ago come from?

heirloomtomaguy · March 24, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

I buy a few plants at the local flea market each year. They are always large mature plants that guarantee me early tomatoes. They usually sell for about $2.50 each and are often about 18" to 24" tall. They will be blooming and/or have small tomatoes already set. Everything else is from seed that I germinate.

In the last 7 years, I have purchased one Bonnie Plants tomato plant. It was a Big Boy and came with a bonus of Bacterial Spec. Don't ask me about Bonnie Plants. No matter who sells them, it is my considered opinion, based on my personal experience, that they are always bad news. I only wish we could litigate the situation when suppliers send us things that destroy all of our hard work.

Bonnie has several sub contracted growers that plaster a bonnie name on and ship them to all the local big box stores. Here in the area i live a large commercial nursery named Colorama grows most of what bonnie has to offer. I dont like introducing foreign plants into my garden either and grow everything from seed. Better to be safe than sorry.

clkeiper · March 24, 2015

I am still looking and not finding any PDF that specifically calls for the use of any type of PRG as growth retardant for tomatoes or veg's. The one I did see listed and used as growth regulators in the use of fruit production for the tomato, but nothing I can find lists the use of a PGR to retard the growth. The two links above are trials for a PRG, but not a product labled for use as a growth retardant for production of bedding plants. IF the product is not listed as use for the crop it is totally illegal to use it for the crop. The fines are substantial if a producer would be using a product not labeled or used according to the label. I am checking labels on products normally used as growth retardants and all of them limit the use to ornamental crops only. I do know that having a restricted spray license comes with a huge amount of accountability and one is to use every product according to its label and to have spray records of everything that is sprayed on/in your produced crops from beginning to end (if you are using a restricted spray of any kind). Not all PGR's are used to regulate or retard growth. Some are for boosting flowering/fruit production, some are designed to drop blossoms (as a chemical method for thinning apples) some are used to create dark green foliage... such as you see on some of these plants that are sold in the large nursery/box stores, but not to retard their growth. I get aggravated with the ornamental crops in the respect that within weeks of purchase they have outgrown the PGR and have become loose/leggy/floppy etc. Not at all what was the original purchase was sold as.

Worth1 · March 24, 2015

Just because an employee tells a costumer or someone something about their product or practices doesn't make it truth or fact.

I cannot tell you how many times I have seen this happen in my occupation nor will I bore you with the stories.

Worth

drew51 · March 25, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by clkeiper

I am still looking and not finding any PDF that specifically calls for the use of any type of PRG as growth retardant for tomatoes or veg's. The one I did see listed and used as growth regulators in the use of fruit production for the tomato, but nothing I can find lists the use of a PGR to retard the growth. The two links above are trials for a PRG, but not a product labled for use as a growth retardant for production of bedding plants. IF the product is not listed as use for the crop it is totally illegal to use it for the crop. The fines are substantial if a producer would be using a product not labeled or used according to the label. I am checking labels on products normally used as growth retardants and all of them limit the use to ornamental crops only. I do know that having a restricted spray license comes with a huge amount of accountability and one is to use every product according to its label and to have spray records of everything that is sprayed on/in your produced crops from beginning to end (if you are using a restricted spray of any kind). Not all PGR's are used to regulate or retard growth. Some are for boosting flowering/fruit production, some are designed to drop blossoms (as a chemical method for thinning apples) some are used to create dark green foliage... such as you see on some of these plants that are sold in the large nursery/box stores, but not to retard their growth. I get aggravated with the ornamental crops in the respect that within weeks of purchase they have outgrown the PGR and have become loose/leggy/floppy etc. Not at all what was the original purchase was sold as.

Go back and look at links again, they are labled for use on tomatoes.
You must not have read them, here is the first sentence.

Recently, a supplemental label for Sumagic (uniconazole) has been released to allow foliar sprays on some vegetable transplants: tomato, pepper

Sounds pretty clear to me.

Also clear as to what is does
All Sumagic-treated plants were significantly shorter than the control plants

So let's all buy those toxic tomatoes! Alright! It works too good in some cases.
I found many other links, and I didn't even try that hard.

So this growth regulator was approved 6 years ago!
http://www.valent.com/newsroom/newsr...ransplants.cfm

I could go on all day...

http://agdev.anr.udel.edu/weeklycropupdate/?p=804

At one time is was not used on veggies, seems super safe. NOT!!!
This pdf is funny as it is supposed to be used for tomato growers,. i guess not reading these things is common as in it. it clearly states not to use it on veggies. Yet, look at the name of this file. (darn this site shortens the link, you have to click and look at the name in your browser)

http://www.plantproducts.com/ca/imag...e_label(1).pdf

MacDuff · March 25, 2015

This is from the PDF:

Do not use in greenhouses with soil floors consisting of sand or sandy loam soil.

 Do not reuse soil from plants treated with SUMAGIC Plant Growth Regulator.

But it is safe for us to use the soil that the plant comes in our garden. Am I missing something?

Angus

clkeiper · March 25, 2015

I hadn't found those two labels. the other sumagic label I found specifically stated to not get it on any food production plants. it was a spray only for ornamental and flowering bedding plants.

A supplemental label is a temporary use- not a label you can use as a grower as you want when you want. It is a "release" by the state you are in for specific period of time given as permission by the state on a separate piece of paper and you must have that documentation on hand to prove that is where you where granted permission to use it for that purpose. Changing a label costs millions of dollars to have it registered by the EPA.

This label from the last link is one that I had looked and it specifically denies you the use of sumajic on food crops.

DIRECTIONS FOR USE
IMPORTANT NOTES

SUMAGIC Plant Growth Regulat
or is an extremely active plant growth regulator.
Extreme caution must be exercised in meas
uring, diluting and a
pplying SUMAGIC Plant
Growth Regulator. Excessive doses will result in severe growth retardation and possible
adverse effects on flowering, plant appearance
and marketability. A
void spray drift onto
non-target species.

Apply to well-watered, vigorously growing plants
. Do not mix with pesticides, fertilizers,
or adjuvants.
PRECAUTIONS

FOR GREENHOUSE USE ONLY.

Do not apply SUMAGIC Plant Grow
th Regulator to any food crops.


clkeiper · March 25, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacDuff

This is from the PDF:

Do not use in greenhouses with soil floors consisting of sand or sandy loam soil.

 Do not reuse soil from plants treated with SUMAGIC Plant Growth Regulator.

But it is safe for us to use the soil that the plant comes in our garden. Am I missing something?

Angus

This means there will be residual action on any subsequent crops if they happen to use the soil from that crop to grow in. Not every crop is a success. Some are failures and the soil might be reused or tossed into a recycle bin. It also will travel through the soil quite easily and possible get into the water table in that area. It might depend in whether a product is used as a drench or a foliar spray.

Starlight · March 25, 2015

If you put "plant companies using growth regulators on tomato plants" you will find all kinds of information on the GPR that are being used on veggies and even a couple of the sites give how much Surmagic to use on tomatoes.

There are several GPR's that have been labeled now for use on veggie crops, especially the tomatoes and peppers.

If you want to be sure if the company is using them or not, I would call and ask and talk to the head grower. I imagine that even though they don't announce it that by law they would have to tell you if they are or aren't. Bonnie's has a Facebook page and you can go there and ask questions. Maybe they will give you an answer on line.

March 24, 2015	#33
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	On growth regulators The show I heard was not talking about flowers, it was about tomatoes. I listen to so many of them, I don't remember what show it was? Else i would point you at it. . OK, if they do not can you explain why us experienced growers cannot get the plants to produce? http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/files/reposi...5p19-68529.pdf http://www.gpnmag.com/sumagic-and-tomato-transplants Appears they most certainly do use regulators. Last edited by drew51; March 24, 2015 at 07:29 AM.

March 24, 2015	#39
clkeiper Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ohio Posts: 4,350	I am still looking and not finding any PDF that specifically calls for the use of any type of PRG as growth retardant for tomatoes or veg's. The one I did see listed and used as growth regulators in the use of fruit production for the tomato, but nothing I can find lists the use of a PGR to retard the growth. The two links above are trials for a PRG, but not a product labled for use as a growth retardant for production of bedding plants. IF the product is not listed as use for the crop it is totally illegal to use it for the crop. The fines are substantial if a producer would be using a product not labeled or used according to the label. I am checking labels on products normally used as growth retardants and all of them limit the use to ornamental crops only. I do know that having a restricted spray license comes with a huge amount of accountability and one is to use every product according to its label and to have spray records of everything that is sprayed on/in your produced crops from beginning to end (if you are using a restricted spray of any kind). Not all PGR's are used to regulate or retard growth. Some are for boosting flowering/fruit production, some are designed to drop blossoms (as a chemical method for thinning apples) some are used to create dark green foliage... such as you see on some of these plants that are sold in the large nursery/box stores, but not to retard their growth. I get aggravated with the ornamental crops in the respect that within weeks of purchase they have outgrown the PGR and have become loose/leggy/floppy etc. Not at all what was the original purchase was sold as. __________________ carolyn k

March 25, 2015	#43
clkeiper Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: ohio Posts: 4,350	I hadn't found those two labels. the other sumagic label I found specifically stated to not get it on any food production plants. it was a spray only for ornamental and flowering bedding plants. A supplemental label is a temporary use- not a label you can use as a grower as you want when you want. It is a "release" by the state you are in for specific period of time given as permission by the state on a separate piece of paper and you must have that documentation on hand to prove that is where you where granted permission to use it for that purpose. Changing a label costs millions of dollars to have it registered by the EPA. This label from the last link is one that I had looked and it specifically denies you the use of sumajic on food crops. DIRECTIONS FOR USE IMPORTANT NOTES  SUMAGIC Plant Growth Regulat or is an extremely active plant growth regulator. Extreme caution must be exercised in meas uring, diluting and a pplying SUMAGIC Plant Growth Regulator. Excessive doses will result in severe growth retardation and possible adverse effects on flowering, plant appearance and marketability. A void spray drift onto non-target species.  Apply to well-watered, vigorously growing plants . Do not mix with pesticides, fertilizers, or adjuvants. PRECAUTIONS  FOR GREENHOUSE USE ONLY.  Do not apply SUMAGIC Plant Grow th Regulator to any food crops.  __________________ carolyn k

March 23, 2015	#32
eltex Guest Posts: n/a	I got a few of those HEB plants in Bastrop this year. They had a nice selection, from a farm not too far away. I also got a few up at Bloomers in Elgin, which are usually his own selection of starts. I walked through his greenhouse about 3 weeks ago, and it was just full of maters and peppers, all about 1-2 inches tall. I also ventured in for the Johnson Backyard Garden plant sale early this month. I got my last few plants there, and they have a very nice setup. It's off 71 about halfway to Austin. I like my plants this year, though I have fewer overall varieties, I have the same amount of plants. I do agree with the Home Depot and Lowes crap. Those plants are a huge ripoff for the most part. If you find exactly what you need, it might be okay, but 3-4 bucks for a single plant is pretty steep.

March 24, 2015	#34
gssgarden Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N.C. Posts: 1,826	We have a GREAT Mom and Pop hardware 3 miles away that always has both six packs and quart size. 6 packs RULE!! Greg

March 24, 2015	#36
frdlturner Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Galena, MO Posts: 215	the reason prices are so high at big box stores and larger nurseries is that a couple of years ago there was a surplus in plants both large and small and with the market for plants went down a bit they decided to kill off a lot of the inventory so that there would be a shortage and they could charge higher prices and these higher pricing has not started the ladt few years with vegetables.

March 24, 2015	#40
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Just because an employee tells a costumer or someone something about their product or practices doesn't make it truth or fact. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen this happen in my occupation nor will I bore you with the stories. Worth

March 25, 2015	#42
MacDuff Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: MA 5 So. Shore Posts: 17	This is from the PDF: Do not use in greenhouses with soil floors consisting of sand or sandy loam soil.  Do not reuse soil from plants treated with SUMAGIC Plant Growth Regulator. But it is safe for us to use the soil that the plant comes in our garden. Am I missing something? Angus

March 25, 2015	#45
Starlight Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: AL Posts: 1,993	If you put "plant companies using growth regulators on tomato plants" you will find all kinds of information on the GPR that are being used on veggies and even a couple of the sites give how much Surmagic to use on tomatoes. There are several GPR's that have been labeled now for use on veggie crops, especially the tomatoes and peppers. If you want to be sure if the company is using them or not, I would call and ask and talk to the head grower. I imagine that even though they don't announce it that by law they would have to tell you if they are or aren't. Bonnie's has a Facebook page and you can go there and ask questions. Maybe they will give you an answer on line.