Growing seedlings to sell?

[seymour_man]

Hi Duane,

Since this is an experimental year I am planning on using styrofoam cups. I think you can buy 1000 8oz at Sams or GFS for about $12 or so. I think i bought Dart brand at GFS. They are a little shorter but fatter at the bottom than other 8 oz cups. I think 12 oz are $2 more and so forth.

The 4" tray inserts are about $50-60 for 1000 and actual 4" pots are $120 per 1000. I havent ruled out using inserts only because they do sit in the flats and carry much easier.

I do have a greenhouse/nursery supply where I buy Promix, vermiculite, etc and can buy just single bags.

But things like flats, pots and the like are by case boxes only.

You might check and see if you have anything like that in your area.

The cheapest place to order for non-professionals is www.greenhousemegastore.com
You can buy by the case or hobby pack of 10's.

Hope this helps,

Duane (2)

[gardenfrog]

A lady from Blue Ridge, here, also uses the styrofoam cups from Sams. She's been growing and selling for years, hundreds and hundreds of heirloom varieties.

[Wi-sunflower]

I haven't had much of a chance to keep up with TV lately. So here's my answers to several posts.

I use as much of my own seed as I can NOW. I know from several years experience that few of my saved seed is not what it's supposed to be. The hybreds are a different story tho. Unless you KNOW you've grown them out for several generations and they aren't showing oddballs, buy the seed.

I change up what size pot I use from year to year, partly due to cost and how much I can fit in my truck. Last year with the price of fuel and the plastic, I went with a smaller pot so I would have more pots in my truck. It didn't work out so well. Tomatoes grow so fast they outgrew a 3601. So this year I will be back to a 2401. I would love to do the paper cups, but I'm not sure how many I could get in a standard 1020 tray. And how well they would stay standing. My racks are built for 5 trays/ shelf.

As far as what are the best sellers, yes, if you can "tell a story" about some of them, those will sell. But sometimes it also depends on if there has been a write-up in a magazine about some variety.

About 10 years ago Amish Paste was popular and I was about the only grower at our market that had it. I sold out what I had with me every weekend. But each year more growers have it so I don't sell as much any more.

Sungold / Sun sugar are always popular tho. And Sweet Million.

On the signage thing -- I use a program called Printmaster to do a lot of my different printing projects. Several years ago I invested in a color laser printer because of selling outside. I went thru too many inkjet signs that would look awful even when laminated if we had even a light rain.

I will find a pic of the variety and make a "title" line and then have a description like what is in a seed catalog. I print it up on a 4x6 unlined index card so it has some body. Then I laminate them with a hot lamination machine. Office Depot has the nicest bright white index cards. Since it's hard to find 4x6 laminating pouches, I use the "legal" size and space 4 cards in each pouch. After laminating I cut them apart with a paper cutter.

I sort my varieties on the shelves by type, like red, small, yellow, etc. Then within the types I have them on the shelf by maturity - earliest on upper left, longest on lower right. I found that works best as people are always asking "what's earliest". If they are in an order, I don't have to keep looking it up. I have too many varieties to know all the facts about all of them without a "cheat-sheet". Oh I print up the cheat-sheets too as hand outs. I have regular customers that will pick up a sheet early and come back the next week with what they want all marked down.

Thant's about all I can think of for now,
Carol

[RJW]

I want to bounce my thoughts and situation off the message board and see what kind of comments I get. This thread is already a great resource, thanks to the plant selling vets for their information. I am curious how Seymour did last year too?

My favorite part of the hobby is growing from seed. Germination to transplanting, that's the best of it for me. After that it feels more like work (and it gets really hot), but BLTs come a close second.

I'm going to try plant sales for a few reasons.

One, I have always grown too many seedlings, and now I have too many seeds and OCTD (Obsessive Cumpulsive Tomato Disorder);

two, it also sounds like fun (though that could be part of the illness);

three, my community has little to offer;

four, I personally want large plants to get in the ground very early. They aren't available so I am growing them and may as well share what I cannot plant;

and five, I want to involve the Girl Scouts in this project. Members of my kid's troop have already helped start seedlings, and with the troop leader we've planned three patches they can earn during the project. One for learning to start seed. One for helping with transplanting, and one come harvest. No patch for sales, but I've agreed to share the proceeds for their June camp, maybe pay for horseback riding or something, who knows how this will go though.

My primary question is about containers. Should I spend $100 on a 1000 or will store bought 16, 24 and 32 oz plastic cups be sufficient? I can't decide. I feel like I can ask a higher price with the more professional container and they may make buyers a little more comfortable with a purchase which could increase sales, but I also hate that rationale. I've always used any old container, a can, a cup, a margarine or yogurt container. I think I want the Girls to decorate the containers as part of the project. I like tin cans for that because they are perfect for half an 8.5x11 sheet for labeling and decorating (could be a fun computer/art/printing project), and they are heavy and sturdy.

Carol, I don't know what 2401s, 3601s and 1020s are, but I think a standard 4" pot is going to be too small for many of my plants come mid-March when I can start selling them here.

My community, in the middle of nowhere, has two stores selling tomato plants. WalMart, with a limited selection from Bonnie; and Home Depot with the same Bonnie Plants and a few more from a big Los Angeles nursery.

The only heirlooms here last year were Yellow Pear, Brandywine, Arkansas Traveler, and Beefsteak. The fastest seller is Heatwave, but it is delivered in modest quantity. The best seller is Better Boy followed by SS 100s or Celebrity. Cherry plants do much better here than the others.

[Wi-sunflower]

1020 is what a standard greenhouse "flat" is called. The dimentions are aprox 10 inches x 20 inches.

A 3601 means there are 36 cuts in a flat sheet. Things that break apart. The 01 part means that each piece only has 1 hole.

2401 same thing only just 24 pieces.

Some standard plants at nurseries come in sizes like 1203 meaning 12 pieces with 3 holes / piece.

Here is a page from the place where I get my flats locally http://www.carlinsales.com/storefron...wse&ctg_id=143

At the market I sell the most, growers usually have tomato plants in a 24 or 18 / flat at about $2 / plant OR go bigger and do the plants in a 1 gallon nursery pot and get $5 or more depending on if the plant is flowering or actually has fruit on it.

But that's my market.

Carol

[Barbee]

Just wanted to chime in and say that lots of places now sell pots and flats for the personal greenhouse. You pay a bit more most likely per pot, but you don't have 3x more than you need. Here are a couple to check out and compare prices.
http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/224-414-Pots.HTm

http://www.circlehgrowers.com/plasti...astic-pots.htm

[RJW]

I learn something new every day. Thanks Carol and Barbie. I'm starting everything between now and the first week of December. I ordered some of the 6" coir pots Charlie's has on sale. A bunch are already started but it's mostly project and experimental type stuff I doubt I'll be selling. Well they can have all the great big Yellow Pear plants cheap.

Tomato plants arrive at stores here around the first of March (I think I've even seen them in Feb), and by then I should have some good sized plants to offer (and plant myself), between 10 - 12 weeks old. If that seems really early, the heat pretty much shuts down new production in June and the set fruit ripening after that can be ruined by the temps. We had three weeks of 100+ degrees this past May. Then we get another short shot at it in the Fall after weeks of 110 degree suffering.

So assuming my growth is healthy for 12 weeks, what size container would be ideal for them? This will be a first for me. I've always gone from starting in small dixie cups, thinning and potting up to 12 to 16 oz containers after about three weeks and getting them in the ground a month after that. That's about 8 weeks from seed to soil with small plants. Now I'm lookling at a minimum of 11 weeks and as much as 15 weeks with some. I'm considering buying a couple hundred one gallon grow bags for maximizing size and minimizing expense. Bad idea? I think done right people might actually like them, the plants may be happier too. No? Also plenty of these are going to be with me through about mid April and still growing.

Just bouncing my rambling mind off the board to make sure I'm not having stupid thoughts. So please tell me if I am.

With my luck, I'll go on travel for a few days and everything will freeze while I'm gone (I have a sister handy, but she just feeds the dog usually). I'm struggling to decide if I want to try to heat a 13X18 foot hoophouse that is going to contain these plants. So far I haven't put the plastic up (but the frame is together), because the weather is great all day long so I just move them in and out of the garage. It was 27 degrees this morning. I wonder how sick I will get of moving them in and out when there's a few hundred and they're getting big. Now it all goes in the wheelbarrow. Simple. Then I wonder how hard it will be to heat this thing. I'm using double plastic, a sheet of 6 mil and sheet of 4. I don't want to make this a major expense, and I'm pretty sure using passive solar (water and such) is a dream and can help a little but not do the job.

I could keep rambling, sorry. Thanks for reading and any input or suggestions on these things is appreciated.

I also found out I'm going to have company from Thanksgiving to Christmas. You know the crazy uncle who stays until he wears out his welcome? My turn!

He also smokes. Is it bad for smokers to handle plants? I think I read that in some hydro forum. Am I still rambling? Sheesh. I might be a little excited about this project.

[Wi-sunflower]

With your time frame, I would go for the gallon nursery pots. Without going out to find some of mine, I think they go by a number 500 or 600, something like that. Ask for the "economy" too if you are just going to be selling them. Lighter weight (thiner wall) plastic and about 1/3 off the price of the heavy weights.

Carol

[Barbee]

It's been a whole lotta years since I was involved in Girl Scouts but is there a patch for recycling? If so, you could recycle some used 1 gallon pots from local nurseries, have the girls clean them up with soap/water/bleach, and plant your tomato plants in those.

If you don't want to go that route, I'd say either buy new pots (check Amazon on prices) or the grow bags you want. I think if you're going to be moving the pots in and out a lot, you'll want to use the more rigid pot so as not to disturb the soil and roots all the time in the grow bags. Most people I know use the bags as a permanent home for the plant.

The hoophouse idea is a good one, but before you invest too much money in that, maybe you could purchase a couple of wagons or carts that you could attach platforms to and wheel the plants in and out of the garage until the weather is warm enough to leave them out full time

The smoking shouldn't be a problem as long as the smoker washes his hands before handling the plants.

[troad]

RJW,

If you want to use the hoophouse you might consider a small enclosed area ( like a mini green house) inside the hoophouse to hold your growing tomatoes. I did that year before last and ran an extension cord to the inner enlosure then heated this smaller space with a couple of 100 watt bulbs. Add a table to keep everything off the ground-some one gallon jugs of water to provide some passive heat-also I put a muck bucket full of grass clippings under the table to generate some extra heat. I was able to keep everything healthy and I got a jump on hardening off the plants. You might still have to move plants indoors if it gets really cold like desert nights can. But this worked for me when temps were in the 30's.

Len

[RJW]

Thanks Troad. I think some version of that idea will keep me from hauling the plants in and out so much.

I was at HD this morning and noticed the bark fines sweating inside the clear plastic bags. It was 40 degrees outside but the bark was very warm inside the bag. That reminded me that we solarize our soil out here quite quickly with clear plastic. I combined the idea with a youtube I saw of a "mud" heated greenhouse and thought filling some clear plastic trash bags with sand and water and lining the perimeter of the hoophouse with them (or some other better arrangement) might store heat conveniently. I'm collecting milk jugs and planning on parking a 96 gallon black trash can in the hoophouse full of water too. I know passive will fail though.

Just thinking out loud. I could line the area below the tables with the clear moist sand bags, have them on on top of a sheet of plastic so that it can be pulled over everything at night, but still held down by the sandbags and with the sandbags inside the inner greenhouse/row cover.

I also put a strand of 200 Christmas lights inside an old bbq grill and plugged them in. It radiated quite a bit of heat. I've seen diy doghouse heaters with a mounted light bulb inside a coffee can. I experimented and man that got hot. Too hot. Dangerous, imo.

Anyway, thanks again.

[Wi-sunflower]

How low do your outside nite temps get ??

If only in the 20s, you shouldn't have a dificult time setting up a mostly passive greenhouse. Don't forget that on a sunny day, the greenhouse floor will soak up a lot of heat too.

If you have any old cattle tank type things around, you can put them in the greenhouse. Fill with water and put something on top and use them for your "table". Most of them hold over 100 gal of water. Even old leaky ones work. Just line them with 2 layers of black sheet plastic.

Then you can build a secondary cover for at nite. See this page on my site http://knapps-fresh-vegies.netfirms.com/greenhouse.html

You would be surprised how well you can do with little actual heat. If you are really worried about low temps, put a "tank heater" immersion type heater in the water tank. Get them at any "farm" type store. It won't get the water really hot, but even 40* water will keep things from freezing.

For me, I use a propane water heater on a closed loop pumped thru 4 tanks in a 20x30 greenhouse. I get the water up to 90-100* for germinating and it works well.

The only problem is with all that water, if it isn't covered well, the humidity in there will be very high and can encourage disease if you don't vent well during the day.

This should give you some ideas.

Carol

[RJW]

We have a bitter cold spell or three with overcast (high clouds) every year. It's also common for us to experience an "indian summer" in January or February where temps can approach 100 degrees by day and still freeze at night. Low clouds aren't so bad because they insulate us and the temps stay in the high thirties but passive heating is muted without bright sunshine. No clouds, the typical condition, can mean cold nights (20s) and warm days (high 70s). High clouds, no sun, and it becomes a problem, mid teens and below freezing all day, no sunshine. It got as low as 12 degrees two winters back. These cold spells can be as short as a couple days or linger for 10 days. The high cloud cover is what I have to watch for, very little passive energy and day time warming.

My guess is I can put together things from advice here and get through most of the winter and spring just fine, but there will be a few spells where I have to move plants to the garage, or beef up my heating. Anway, it's time to move them out of the garage for the day. The cool thing about them currently fitting in a big, deep, black plastic wheelbarrow is I put them outside right now, while it's still freezing, but cover them in plastic, tip them towards the sun, and have a little mobile greenhouse.

[mjc]

Something that nobody seems to have mentioned in this thread...local/state rules and regulations. Here in WV we can't sell plants (seedlings)...without a state issued 'nursery' permit (and another one for seeds and the need to get 'stamps' from the state...a real mess).

[Wi-sunflower]

And I thought Wisconsin was regulation happy.

At least I don't have those rules. Plants for annuals don't need a license. But if you do perienials, especially from cuttings, then you do need a "nursery" license.

This gets especially goofy with some stuff like catnip. I have it growing all over the farm. If I dig up and pot it to sell, I need a nursery license. But if I start it from seeds then I don't need a license. I can also cut the wild stuff to sell like an herb without a license.

Yup, local rules can really suck.

Carol