starting old seeds question

[eyolf]

A report: one BB pink globe has sent out a feeler.

Hooray!


In other news, I divided 200 2008 Heshpole seeds into two groups, bleaching one per the instructions and letting the other soak up nitrate. Now they are warm and snug in sandwich bags under lights. I also divvy'd up an old packet of Hung Wax pepper seeds and did the same.


Finally, using the site on a phone isn't any fun. Further reports may have to wait until.Im near the desktop.



https://www.dropbox.com/s/spiyvt3a02...14458.jpg?dl=0

[ddsack]

Yay! For the BB pink globe! I know you will baby that one!

It will be interesting to hear the results of the bleach vs nitrate pre-treatments. Some seeds should be popping up by now.

[eyolf]

So far, no report on the bleach vs blue soak.

I do have a couple of pink Teddy Globes struggling to shed their seed coats, and may try to help them.

As regards the rest:
A selection from J. Hutson called "Orange Russian" back in 2004: 100 seeds bleached and 100 nitrated ( nothing yet)

100 each of Faribo Gold from 2005; nada.

100 each of Lycoprea #1 (a rugose dwarf from SSE, last grown in 2009) Nada.

100 each of F3 out of Better Boy from 2004; nothing yet.

Hungarian hot wax pepper from 2009; nothing yet.

Ground Cherry from 2012; nothing yet.

All seeds kept at about 78-80 degrees.


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[hl2601]

fingers crossed for you!

[eyolf]

A quick report:
Added 200 seeds from the 2008 Heshpole; I got ONE sickly germ so far from the nitrated seeds I planted on Feb 27 (It is surviving alongside a 2011 growout)
The bleached Heshpoles from 2008 have germinated about 5% thus far. None from the blue soak
The bleached Farobo Golds have given me 6, none from the blue soak, and none from the Feb 27 (yet)

Nothing on the Russian Orange (dissapointing: think a carrot-colored Azoychka with a deeper flavor)
The F4's...nada. I'm not worried about them; the F5's delivered exactly one tomatoe plant of 40 that excited me.
Ground Cherries and peppers can take a long time, so we wait.

As a side note, my daughter asked for a few tomatilloes; she and her current boyfriend made homemade green salsa last fall from green ones the neighbor gave them. I havent grown them since 2010; purple sprouted after nitrate soak almost immediately; still waiting for green.

[eyolf]

Further report: I now have 3 more Heshpoles from the nitrate soak that are shedding their seed coats, but the bleached one couldn't get its hat off and looks dead.

One Faribo Gold from 2/27 came out to play; 19 days at 80 degrees. None (yet from the nitrate soak).

I threw away 50 dead seeds of Djena Lee that are about 18 years of age. Most were spitting out squishy innards. No bleach
Nothing on the Orange Russian either.

The Lycoprea is germinating at about 10%...bleached, hydro peroxide then rinse with molasses and water, and nitrate soak...all the same.

Early conclusion? Bleach kills mold and fungus, may have some effect on degrading seed coat, and speeds up emergence...sometimes. But performance is "iffy" and certainly cant bring back seeds that are over the edge.

[eyolf]

More reports. A mouse loose in my basement snacked on a few tomatoes, so I had to replant. It was Kotlas, old seed, low germination (about 5%)

So I soaked some overnight in nitrate, soaked some in carefully measured 2.7% bleach for 30 minutes, and soaked some in 1% Hydrogen Peroxide. The peroxide soak was up in 4 days. No sign of the others ( took 9-10 days with nitrate the first time around).

Here they are. 9 seeds of 50, vs 3 of 50 first time around.

Nothing (yet) from the nitrate or bleach.

I have some 2005 Kimberly seeds in containers as well. This is as much fun as science class!

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[eyolf]

Last(?)entry.

Seeing germination from bleach and nitrate soak. 2008 Kotlas seed.
H2O2 (1%) soak: 13/50; 4 days
Nitrate soak. 8/50; 8 days
2.7% Hypochlorite. 12/50 5 days

Conclusion: make your own.

The H202 soak seemed to deliver as many as it was going to by day 5. Bleach delivered NO stragglers. I assume the nitrate might still deliver one or two if I wanted to keep watching.
Similar treatments to seeds as old as 18 years have failed to yield a single surviving seedling. Seeds 10 years and younger germinated at acceptible rates without special treatment.

A tiny-seeded variety (a container cherry) was dead at ten years, but Lycoprea (a rugose-leaved dwarf delivering golf-ball sized red tomatoes) germinated at 50% from 2009 seed. My own selection of a L. Pink Bulgarian cross (Thank you, Fusion) did about 5% from 2008 seed, 30% from 2012.

A Martin Longseth variety of paste did 50% from 2008 seed, but Italian Black from Bill Minkey (2008, again) did 3/50

I don't mind throwing dead seed away. But I'm sad to throw away living seedlings. But I don't have the energy to care for 500 tomatoes like I did 20 years ago.

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[ddsack]

A Martin Longseth variety of paste did 50% from 2008 seed, but Italian Black from Bill Minkey (2008, again) did 3/50

These are the kind of results that drive me crazy! Since the same age seeds have been in your possession, the storage conditions must have been similar, if not identical. So one can only speculate whether the different rate is from some condition of seed fermentation/cleaning, stage of tomato ripeness at seed saving, some factor at the time of pollination, or ????? Some varieties are said to be harder to germinate. I can't say I have experienced this, since my failures tend to be random and I usually don't start enough newer seeds (4-6) per variety to be able to say that with certainty. Often same variety seeds from another source will sprout just fine another year.

[eyolf]

More.
2 Djena Lee's soaked in bleach on 3/7 germinated last night and one more this morning. That's really bad, pecentage-wise, but interesting in that it took about 3 weeks...and the non-bleached DL seeds were a mass of fungus and discarded a week ago.

I still don't know a lot of things. Old seeds can take a long time. Sometimes bleach works, sometimes H2O2, sometimes Nitrate, and sometimes nothing.

I have about 2X as many plants as I expected to grow. But I can resurrect more space...if Mama doesn't worry about having enough tomatoes to feed the whole township...

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[dmforcier]

BTW, one thing I've noticed (with peppers). Some varieties/species respond differently than others to heat in the germinating bag, and presumably in soil.

IIRC (sketchy, that), C.annuum likes closer to room temp. C.chinense, especially the persnickety super-hots, seem to like a period of relatively high temp (up to 85F) then cooler (mid-70s).

Which ones isn't important - the point is, splitting your batches and trying some at higher temp and some cooler may help identify a preference.

[simmran1]

A (bell) pepper seed germination experiment by Finland Farm –
no pre soak vs water soak vs chamomile tea soak
for 3 hours - results after 3 days:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP_yUa6LUrY