My First Attempt with Seeds on Paper?

[dmforcier]

Originally Posted by moneymaker

for the life of me why put plants in washing machine drums ???

That I don't have a problem with, per se. They must make dandy pots. But all this fooling around with wick watering seems more like onanism than a solution to a problem. When they get dry pull out the hose! Dump water in tub. Go watch TV.

And I agree with Worth. Plants need good airflow 24/7.


Now go let some tomatoes grow, will you?

[murihikukid]

Hi all ...I have to be honest I resent some of your replies cause I believe they go against the basics of growing Tomatoes as i know it ...So first remember it took a New Zealander to land Americans on the moon and also earlier to split the atom ..We are not hill billies down here....
So now I have that off my chest...lets look at your replies..

dmforcier...Yes washing machine drums do make excellent pots/containers/drums etc not only for tomatoes but all plants..they are widely used here...at $5 each they cost far less than the large plastic containers and far more durable ...I regard watering (ie too much or not enough)as critical to Tomatoes ...I tried hosing etc 4 years ago and it kills them by drowning or especially spreading disease ....Now airflow ..I know airflow is critical ..Now that Worth has advised to use fans 24/7 I will do this ....Oh yes Onanism??I must Google that to find out what it means..

Worth1...I do not think I presumed they do not need airflow when sleeping ..the truth is I did not know and I thankyou for putting me right ..I will keep the fans on all the time once the seedlings are put in the so called "Growth Chamber"...

imp..I really did get a lot of tomatoes last season but that was due to the mature Tasty Tom plants that I purchased ..they really produced and I will not be satisfied till I can grow plants like these ...Plus they are such a great tasting fruit..and do well down here ..

Moneymaker...No I have no problems ...I think I posted just to get the best information on what best to do when i repot my seeds ...I certainly do not want to use anything that would clash with the Mycorrhizae i intend using .... Now Grow lights..Question? Are normal LED 150cm tubes Grow Lights ...NO they are not ...These are mainly normal cool white and I have never read anywhere that light is no good for Tomato seedlings...and New Zealand ..I would be interested if you have ever visited here especially in the deep south cause it seems to me you know nothing about where I live ...Summer is quite some way off and even then we have widely variable temperatures and strong winds usually til February ....
My greenhouse base is concrete hense the washing machine drums ..By the way the structure of the greenhouse is made from steel wire bed frames and sliding glass doors?? .......and i do take advice BUT not when It goes against everything I have read and experienced..

Dmforcier...I originally used the Cornell University mix that they recommend (also Tomatodirt.com) IE Equal parts by volume of Sphagnum moss-perlite-and Vermiculite ..I quickly changed this to 2 parts of Moss with 1 part of Perlite and 1 Part Vermiculite....Then I changed too 3 parts of moss with 1 part each of Perlite and Vermiculite ... I still have concerns about the mix especally the ability to support seedlings ... and when did you advise me I do not need Vermiculite ...was it last season ...I know many have concerns about its use but some experienced Tomato growing sites still advise to use it...
and what better could I do in my old age but grow Tomatoes...and share the fruit with others..

What I really like about this year is the way I am propagating my seedlings ..With no interference with the root structure surely that in itself is a plus ....

Finally ...I do need expert advice...I could not help myself from trying to Propagate some Tasty Toms from seed I saved from last seasons fruit ...Yes ..I was told it probably would not work but then again it just might...So I Propagated some seeds....I took one out to the local gardening centre and they told me it was "blind"....Well that was the first time I had heard of a seedling being blind.......Anyway I have 4 seedlings and I will attach photos ...cause I would certainly like to know if they are all blind ...???

What I really like about this year is the way I am propagating my seedlings ..With no interference with the root structure surely that in itself is a plus ....


Cheers Ron

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by murihikukid

Hi..I have no Time release ferts in my seedlings..only sphagnum moss/Perlite and vermiculite ...I have mist sprayed with a weak solution of Miracle gro (I thought that may give them some Trace Elements??)....The photo I posted is not representative of all my seedlings because there was a couple of seedlings that just would not stand up in my mix so I carefully put some other seed raising mix on the top round the stem to hold them upright...I cannot recall now but having scraped most of my initial seedlings off the floor and then later sifting through the mix to "recover" them and repotting its quite possible that is why I had to prop a couple up...
I am waiting for the opportune time to get most in my so called growth chamber which as i understand will "harden off" my seedlings and make them into super plants??......
My present plan is to make up a mix of Tomato soil in a container and test its ph and add dolomite lime if required ...then I fill the new pots and make the indentation in the soil so the Peat Jiffy cup can be just dropped in ...I will sprinkle Mycorrhizae in the indentation and I thought of some light calmag also.....and spray some Miracle grow at say 1/2 strength for moisture and just drop the jiffy cup in....i have read that the soil level should actually fully envelop the jiffy cup so that may require some careful work ....
The repotted seedlings will be sitting on a capillary cloth drawing water from a tray while enclosed in the chamber ...So I think I have everything covered...I have no way of seeing my plants within the chamber once the lid is lowered ...So I will check them every couple of days by raising the lid and could mist spray the top of the soil in each with Miracle Gro..
Because this is all unknown to me I just have to work out a daily time table for all the lights to be on
Plus The Fans ..I wonder if they can be on with the lights ....I presume the seedlings do not need air flow when they are sleeping? Or do they..

As usual I am always grateful for comments ....Thanks Ron

Well I took the exact word you said((presume)).
I have really enjoyed helping you with the greenhouse and so on.
And look forward to your posts and tomatoes.


Worth

[murihikukid]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Ron I have read through this and I can help with one of your questions.
It is about the fan and airflow.
You presumed they dont need airflow while sleeping.
Yes they do and plants dont sleep.
One nasty stuff grows in the dark and plants grow in the dark.
They store energy from light and will grow over night.
In my opinion plants need a fan all the time.

The other advice is you are mixing methods you cant do that many times.

Where you live you would have better luck getting a penguin that you would good gardening stuff.
Learn how to use what you have.
Best of luck and great job.


Worth

Thanks ...I see I did add "or do they"....The fans have lights on them so hopefully I can switch them off and keep the fans going so that the wee blokes get plenty of air flow while they are sleeping and no light....every night I go through the seeds I am trying to germinate to see if there is any sign of a root...belatedly I now realise why I had so many problems last year with propagating ...Its got to be the seeds.... I bought from the same source this season and because I am now germinating on a paper towel one quickly realises after 2 - 3 days chances of roots appearing is basicly nil......I am still hoping after 10-14 days ??? Never again ...I hope that I can get a few more varieties to propagate and then get my own seed bank from this seasons crop...What I will do is ask the "neighbourhood online"..maybe somebody has some seeds ..I am particularly interested in growing a Better Boy....that will go through the roof...??

I think my electrical friend has miscalulated on achieving a constant 10 degrees C in my chamber but I think this can maybe put right by buying a thing used in brewing ....

I know that the Tasty toms will be ready for me in the future ...If they are the same as earlier this year they will be over 1/2 a metre tall with fruit and flowers already on them and all I do is hand the money over....put them in a drum each and look after them and grab the odd lateral to grow more......I get jealous not knowing how they can grow magnificent plants like this .I read the "secret" was the "hardening off"and this is why I did research and decided to make a growth chamber for myself that could give my seedlings the same conditions that growers use although no doubt they would use a big cool room....

I just wonder what I would be like without my Tomatoes...Probably shrivel up and fall over...Regards Ron

[dmforcier]

I have no idea what a "blind" seedling is. Anyone? Maybe it's a local phrase.

Those four do look a little anemic and the taller ones kind of spindly. How much light are they getting? Intensity is critical - more so than duration or color. How close are your lamps?


(As a buyer, I don't believe in "Gro Lights". As a seller I'd love the huge profits...)

[oakley]

Blind might be no second set of leaves forming.

Isn't TastyTom a hybrid?

You should start many seeds and cull. If it is a hybrid. Never know
what may come of them.

I did a quick germination test. One of two trays. One variety in
each row. Row three through 6, 2-3 seeds per cell. Boom, done.
I actually forgot about them and gave them a shower in the sink.
90%. Saved only 6 for Winter growing. Rest into the compost.

Tomato seeds/seedlings do not need babysitting. Recipe for disaster. You
could even use sterilized soil from your yard baked in an oven.
Some of these are out on the deck table in a heap...no water,
roots exposed and dry as a bone and still alive. A week later.

You might just be way over-thinking this.

[MissS]

Originally Posted by dmforcier

I have no idea what a "blind" seedling is. Anyone? Maybe it's a local phrase.

It is the same thing that many here call a 'mule'. The plant is incapable of growing a main stem.

Ron, I would advise you NOT to use the Calmag prior using the MG. Calmag will give you a large burst of nitrogen which could easily burn your little ones roots.

[ginger2778]

I looked at the 4 photos,I see a growth tip on all 4. I don't see any blind ones.I hate vermiculite for seed starting- too wet. Vermiculite is great once it's in its final transplant home, if that home tends to go dry too quickly, like grow bags.
I hate domes, used one and that was the only time I got damping off. No way for air to circulate inside a closed dome. No circulation plus high humidity= damping off.
I don't even use a heat mat here, we start seeds when it's like 36C outside. Same time of year as you, but we are getting ready to grow for the winter season.

[carolyn137]

About blind seedlings.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Blin...&bih=815&dpr=1

Hope the above helps.

Yes, I've seen them from time to time, they have just a green knob between two leaves at the top. Usually nothing happens and that's it. But rarely there will be two sprouts that come from that green knob and one or both may go on to form a branch that has blossoms that can lead to fruits.

Usually when I see that initial green knob I pull it since the seedling can stay that way forever.And usually I have more than one seedling of that variety that is just fine.

Carolyn

[Worth1]

I always called a mule a tomato plant that never put out blooms.
Only had one or two in my life.
Any blind seedling I have seen had big fat embryonic leaves and no growing tip.
They are culled promptly.

Worth

[murihikukid]

Originally Posted by dmforcier

I have no idea what a "blind" seedling is. Anyone? Maybe it's a local phrase.

Those four do look a little anemic and the taller ones kind of spindly. How much light are they getting? Intensity is critical - more so than duration or color. How close are your lamps?


(As a buyer, I don't believe in "Gro Lights". As a seller I'd love the huge profits...)

Hi..I agree ..they look terrible and they are growing at double the rate of my normal seeds...In the main they have been growing out in my greenhouse in a Propagator under normal light....Thanks Ron

[murihikukid]

Originally Posted by oakley

Blind might be no second set of leaves forming.

Isn't TastyTom a hybrid?

You should start many seeds and cull. If it is a hybrid. Never know
what may come of them.

I did a quick germination test. One of two trays. One variety in
each row. Row three through 6, 2-3 seeds per cell. Boom, done.
I actually forgot about them and gave them a shower in the sink.
90%. Saved only 6 for Winter growing. Rest into the compost.

Tomato seeds/seedlings do not need babysitting. Recipe for disaster. You
could even use sterilized soil from your yard baked in an oven.
Some of these are out on the deck table in a heap...no water,
roots exposed and dry as a bone and still alive. A week later.

You might just be way over-thinking this.

Hi..Yes they are Hybrids and I was fully aware I could have problems ..Not knowing what Ii would get was what I was told but "blind"..I never reckoned on that...I do not think the seller is selling fresh seeds...they may be old seeds mixed with some new ones ...All I know is something is not right ... Regards Ron

[murihikukid]

Originally Posted by MissS

It is the same thing that many here call a 'mule'. The plant is incapable of growing a main stem.

Ron, I would advise you NOT to use the Calmag prior using the MG. Calmag will give you a large burst of nitrogen which could easily burn your little ones roots.

Patti...Thankyou ..thats info I require....Do you think my idea of making a mix up with perhaps dolomite lime to get the ph to 6.5 and use it as an "overcoat" soil..to go under and around my peat Jiffy pots that have the seedling .....I will be sprinkling Mycorrhizae inside the overcoat before the seedlings is put in so hopefully the roots will get acsess to but do you think i need to sprinkle anything else with the mycorrhizae like Epsom Salts?? I will be using a lite Miracle Gro mix to provide moisture...To me this is crucial ....Because they will then be going into a hardening off process?? Regards Ron

[murihikukid]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

I looked at the 4 photos,I see a growth tip on all 4. I don't see any blind ones.I hate vermiculite for seed starting- too wet. Vermiculite is great once it's in its final transplant home, if that home tends to go dry too quickly, like grow bags.
I hate domes, used one and that was the only time I got damping off. No way for air to circulate inside a closed dome. No circulation plus high humidity= damping off.
I don't even use a heat mat here, we start seeds when it's like 36C outside. Same time of year as you, but we are getting ready to grow for the winter season.

Hi Ginger...Thanks for your input ..you see a growth tip?? Thats good enough for me and theres only 4...I will put them through a growth period and see what happens...It cannot do any harm ...Yes I am thinking Vermiculite is a problem...whether right or wrong having Jiffy pots with the mix I used sitting on a capillary cloth ...may not have been the best option...I think the colour of some of the pots indicates too much moisture and as yet no seedlings have arrived from those pots..How lucky you are to have 36C outside....The real problem here is the winds have arrived... REgards Ron

[murihikukid]

Hi..Its not too bad outside so I have put my seedlings out on my "window landing" for some sun,light and fresh air.....I really need true leaves so I can then repot them ?? The foam pottles with the top NOT cut off contain the seeds scraped off the floor .of course what variety they are will be decided later on ...some never survived and I think they may have been Tasty Toms whereas my Myra's Delight and Sweet Scarlet may be the ones that have not had any ill effects..Regards Ron