Customs confiscated entire order!

[henry]

Originally Posted by oakley

So when i cross the border next week and his name is Ed, i should keep my mouth shut I've crossed with a ton of seeds and 50lbs of blush tomatoes and ghost pepper salami, etc...to share and trade with friends and neighbors...(and get in return a 25b box of king crab legs from a commercial fisherman friend who LOVES tomatoes). He would bring up a dozen at a time from cool storage and had them all lined up in his kitchen watching them ripen and ate them like apples...adorable.

In all seriousness i can see the problems with contamination of soils crossing or introducing disease. In fact i recall a garlic issue a few years ago via suppliers sending off troubled stock. I always see in nursery on-line catalogs where some saplings cannot be sent to certain states.

If a person is sending another person a flat package of seeds as if a common correspondence, it would not bring up a red flag or even necessarily be wrong or dangerous. A return address from a nursery might raise an eyebrow if noticed.

The problem with the garlic was [bulb and stem nematode]
The shipments were eating garlic where this is not a problem but the garlic got sold as seed garlic for planting.

[oakley]

I so agree with you Bower. It is a very connected land mass. When we get full US weather reports with mapping images, they cut off any Canadian existence north of our border line.

quote "Most plant and plug tray shipments to U.S. destinations will be shipped from Buffalo, NY. We take care of all customs fees and paperwork free-of-charge. All U.S. plant shipments are government inspected and come with a phytosanitary certificate provided free-of-charge.
About international plant shipments.

To destinations outside Canada and the United States

We no longer ship plants outside Canada and the United States. The burden of complying with a myriad of plant quarantine regulations, plus the excessive cost of express shipping, no longer makes it sensible to ship live plants outside North America. Of course, we continue to ship most other products worldwide, including seeds, dried herbs, books and more." end of quote

Your phytosanitary certificate must have not carried on...

Since January, 2002, the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, Plant Protection and Quarantine (APHIS-PPQ), of the USDA, has required a phytosanitary certificate for all imported seed, including the small packets of seed from foreign seed exchanges and private seed houses. Four years of effort produced a new Permit, for Small Lots of Seed, that allows the importation of these small packets of seeds without a phyto.

U.S. importers who plan to purchase seed from any groups or individuals based outside the United States should obtain this new permit. It is free, good for three years and multiple uses, and the application is available online. Best of all, it does not require that the exporter provide an expensive, time-consuming phyto.

For information about getting the permit: https://www.nargs.org/small-lots-seed

This program does not always work well. I tried mailing seeds to a Washington state inspection station, following all regulations, and the inspector somehow lost the enclosed mailing label required to mail the seeds on to the person who had requested them. I finally succeeded by NOT following instructions. I printed the recipient's address on the envelope, under the big label with the inspection station's address, so that when the inspector ripped that label off, there was the next address.

When this procedure first went into effect, seeds sent to the inspection station in Jamaica, New York, sometimes got sent to Jamaica.

[drew51]

Originally Posted by bower

On the other hand though, it surprises me that there are many issues between Canada and the US, which is essentially one continuous land mass.

I agree 100%, I live 16 miles from Canada, yet I have restrictions. Any other direction for hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles "Hey No Problem!"
Luckily I have a friend in Ontario and he often when coming here forgets about stuff in his car.

[Captain Neon]

When I think of the high school classmates of mine that barely graduated high school, and now have jobs working for the government, it is little surprise to me that things like this happen from time to time.

[bower]

Jeepers, LDiane, I misread and thought it said narcs.org.
I think I'll just stick with the tried and true method, of installing a small "somebody else's problem" field around each envelope. But there you are. Gambling nature, impulsivity... these packages could all end up in a space warp somewhere, and I'd just blame the post office. Until they come to get me!

[ScottinAtlanta]

There are no known disease infections from small quantities of seeds (20 grams) sold in gardener's packages. FSIS has way overstepped any possible risk assessment by not excluding these small packages of seeds from their quarantine regulations.

It would probably vary from one inspection station to another, but when my seeds couldn't be delivered to the recipient, the seeds were returned to me.

[oakley]

The only time we had issues was the first time,... following all the rules, and handed over our detailed list of our this and that box and itemized carefully what was inside...noobs. We were nailed with taxes and crazy stuff and were told to "do not ever do that". They were a bit embarrassed by the process. Small family traveling issues with seeds and produce are not a problem.

[JLJ_]

While I've had this reply open on my desk waiting to be finished, I see that LDiane and probably others have addressed the issue well . . . and my experience with people holding responsible jobs in many fields accords entirely with Captain Neon's observation . . . but I guess I'll post this anyway, as some things in it haven't been mentioned.




I'd encourage anyone involved in bringing in seeds to read Brokenbar's thread.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=39541

I believe you will find that . . .

1) Her son was not a large or frequent importer -- had only gotten a few seeds from other countries a few times in his life. Same was true, I believe, of others who had similar experiences.

2) What was required was not a phytosanitary permit, it was a USDA permit to enable individuals to legally import small quantities of seed which, among other things, exempted the permit holder from needing a phytosanitary certificate for the import of small quantities of seed. So anyone importing seed without the permit would presumably be in violation of both the USDA permit requirement and of the regulations regarding phytosanitary permits.

3) The USDA permit is free -- though was apparently a pain to complete the process required to get it, but once obtained, it was only a minor pain to use for future seed imports.

4) It is not an "oh, I'll take the risk" issue, as persons in other countries, as well as the US recipient of the seed, have encountered threats and/or serious penalties -- so importing without the permit is putting not only yourself, but also the seed sender, at risk of serious aggravation, or worse.

5) What worked OK in the past -- "I've always done things this way without problems" is not relevant, as enforcement practices have clearly changed.

The problem seems not to be so much the permit requirement -- which does seem designed to exempt people who are genuinely importing small quantities of seeds from requirements meant for larger importers -- but the way in which it is being enforced -- but irrational overkill by those empowered to enforce rules or standards is common in any human organization, not just governmental ones. Being a firm but sensible and courteous enforcer is a rare talent . . . Andy (or Andrea) of Mayberry types are hard to find.

And, considering the responses to the issue in these threads, it's hard to call strong threat/enforcement policies entirely irrational. It's easy to see how someone charged with enforcement could conclude that "asking nicely" wasn't going to have any effect on those who don't want to be bothered with any sort of import regulations -- and as has been pointed out, there really are some legitimate reasons to be able to monitor seeds coming in from other countries.

All of which doesn't mean I approve of this seed import policy -- I tend toward belief in minimal regulations in any field as being most efficient and most effective in the long run . . . but I don't make the rules, and I think that those bringing seeds into the country need to take this new enforcement policy seriously -- both for their own sake and in the interest of those sending them seeds.

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

Please, hand carry how? If you feel more comfortable, pm this info. I travel too, but I see those cute beagles in the airport!

For the most part I'll just stick the seeds in an envelope and put it in my laptop bag. I too see the Beagles and German Shepherds at the airports but never worry about it even if by some remote chance I would be questioned. Not that I have more than a dozen or so. A couple of weeks ago I brought in a whole dried pepper from a guy's ristra in Pisa, Italy (even sent some seeds out to a guy on here in trade ) I had the pepper just wrapped in a napkin. I think my worst offense ever was bringing a couple pounds of vacuum wrapped cheese home from Switzerland.

I will warn everyone about returning to the USA through a connection in Iceland. Last I was there the complete contents of all passengers carry-ons were hand search, emptied out on tables. They found a tiny bic lighter in my laptop bag that I haven't seen in years (probably had 250K airmiles on it). They confiscated that plus matchbooks and then I asked the guy how I would smoke when I got to the US. As he was repacking my items, he showed me a book of matches that he gave me back and made sure I saw where he put it (duh!). Oh yea, after security, there were several stores selling lighters.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by LDiane

Since January, 2002, the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, Plant Protection and Quarantine (APHIS-PPQ), of the USDA, has required a phytosanitary certificate for all imported seed, including the small packets of seed from foreign seed exchanges and private seed houses. Four years of effort produced a new Permit, for Small Lots of Seed, that allows the importation of these small packets of seeds without a phyto.

U.S. importers who plan to purchase seed from any groups or individuals based outside the United States should obtain this new permit. It is free, good for three years and multiple uses, and the application is available online. Best of all, it does not require that the exporter provide an expensive, time-consuming phyto.

For information about getting the permit: https://www.nargs.org/small-lots-seed

This program does not always work well. I tried mailing seeds to a Washington state inspection station, following all regulations, and the inspector somehow lost the enclosed mailing label required to mail the seeds on to the person who had requested them. I finally succeeded by NOT following instructions. I printed the recipient's address on the envelope, under the big label with the inspection station's address, so that when the inspector ripped that label off, there was the next address.

When this procedure first went into effect, seeds sent to the inspection station in Jamaica, New York, sometimes got sent to Jamaica.

Thanks for reposting the above since it's been posted before but there are now many many newer members , actually hundreds in just the last month or so who haven't heard about it.

Previously it was posted b/c there are many SSE members here and the same as what you posted is in the front part of the annul SSE yearbook
and I just looked at my 2016 SSE Yearbook and it's still there.

It starts out by saying that a phyto must accompany any seeds coming into the US and the price of one certificate is $50, and of course that applies to the many SSE members who are not US members.

It goes on to say that price is prohibitive for small scale growers,and that would be SSE members and those here at Tville as well.

An important point that came out in prervious discussions about this is that there are very few places in Europe,etc,where seeds can be tested to obtain a phytocertificate, and that meant VERY few from those responding from those areas.

It the goes into the USDA free small lots of seed permit which allows for 50 seedsof 50 different varieties per shipment and is good for three years.

Then it goes into how to apply for the permit as you did above, giving links,etc.

So this is all about folks not in the US sending seeds to the US,not US folks sending seed elsewhere.

Now the blurb is known to all SSE members and has been for many years and by now I think many others in other countries but can't be sure of this.

Tania and Andrey and many Canadian members and others from other countries and I could go on and on,have never sent seeds with permits.

I have seeds sent from Denmark, Sweden, France,Germany, Belgium, Poland,The Czech Republic,Slovenia, Italy, Greece, Romania, Spain and I know I'm forgetting some places,and not one of them uses phyto certificates.

What's my point?As others here have posted,for folks sending from other countries to the US,there have rarely been any confiscations of seeds at all, so the small lot permit has essentially been ignored. And despite the concern for importation of noxious weeds,etc.,which was the reason that the USDA set up the program rarely has that happened from feedback.

When so many were coming from Europe,etc.,as immigrants many brought along their seeds,and yes,that's how tumbleweed and some other so called noxious weeds got imported,that was back from maybe the late 1800 hundreds to even today. Ah,almost forgot Thistle,which was imported and kidzu and other examples as well.

Did I hesitate when I received seed from more recent immigrants?I did not and here are two examples, the first is Sandul Moldovan and the second is Gogosha and I could have listed many many more.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Sandul_Moldovan

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Gogosha

So LDiane,I am glad that you reposted this b'c there are several threads here already about it with vigorous discussions,but I don't think most realize it's only for folks outside the US and as I said above,it's being essentially ignored.

Carolyn

[bower]

FWIW, last year I sent a large envelope of seeds to Gary, and the postmistress said I had to declare the contents, I told her it's vegetable seeds and she immediately said, not a problem at all, write on the label "vegetable seeds" it's a-ok to send that the US.

Duly declared vegetable seeds, were delivered with no fuss afaik whatsoever from Canada to US. Without any special permits required.

I have never sent ANY kind of seeds to the US or elsewhere without checking online about the status of that plant ie native or not, endangered, or invasive. I understand there's a risk and legitimate concerns, and Richters, in the case of this thread, is a different ball of wax, they sell a few vegetables but mainly all kinds of herbs and that includes wild stuff and some that can be invasive in the wrong habitat. Maybe they're getting attention because of that. And shipping live plants, maybe there's concern about stray seeds of the prohibited things. It could happen so fair enough to take a look. Destroying or waylaying the paperwork is not so legit. And IMO neither is the awful tale of Brokenbar's son and a few chili seeds! Wow.

Meanwhile, I can only dream of the vegetables that run wild and invade, popping up between cracks in the pavement and putting farmers out of business...

[Fusion_power]

There are seed borne diseases such as tospoviruses that are easy to ship into areas that do not have that particular disease. There are pests that you do NOT want in your back yard under any conditions. They too are easily shipped with seed. Use common sense when ordering seed. There is a darn good reason border inspection exists.

[Andrey_BY]

There are so many people bringing seeds with them while travel over the world. So it would be ridiculous to have any restrictions for small lot of seeds sending by post...

From my 15 years experience of sending seeds abroad I want to admit that there were more problems with local customs to let the seeds go to USA or elsewhere abroad and only a few times concerning import of small lot of seeds in bubblers or regular business envelopes.
They has been following quite old restriction list from other countries and it's more like a game to catch or let it go by certain customs officials here... All I can do is to make envelope rather thin and not suspicious for inspection. You can't prove them nothing and USDA permit means nothing when they see it. They are almost untouchable here...
So I should be clever and tricky