Champagne Cherry

[mariabee63]

Hi All. I started a thread on the comparison over at idig. My photo is not very helpful, but here is what I put:
Coyote
solid pale yellow color
short vines, bushy plant habit
uniform size of fruit
average leaf size is small
sparse leaf coverage
odd number of fruit per cluster


Champagne Cherry
similar color, somewhat translucent
long vines
fruit size varies
average leaf size much bigger
foliage is much thicker
cluster size even or odd

taste is similar
leaf shape is similar

This year I planted a 25 foot fence row with Coyote, and only had one Champagne in a container. This may affect the comparison, but I have had Coyote in a container and it was exactly the same as a field grown plant. The photo doesn't help much. The difference is mostly in the plants.

The difference is so slight that it doesn't matter as far as growing them. I think the only question left is where did the CC come from?

Maria

[carolyn137]

I just posted the following after Maria posted at idig where she said that she thought I was more concerned with where CC came from and also wondered how many pale yellow cherries there coould be.

*******

Maria, I never gave one thought to Coyote as compared with CC until Adam Gleckler brought it up based on his growouts of both varieties.

We know where Coyote came from, that's documented, but to date no one has been able to document where Champagne Cherry came from.

How many small pale colored cherries are there? Lots. Just look at Tania's special list of cherries, for instance.

And while I haven't grown either CC or Coyote I've seen enough pictures and descriptions to add into the mix the pale yellow thumb sized cherry called Mirabell, which I have grown and do like. Mirabell is French in origin, as some have suggested CC is, but I still have a hard time believing that someone in France would name a variety other than in the French language.

There's also the variety Mirabelle Blanche, from France, which is also a small pale colored cherry that also might be considered as worthy of comparison if someone was interested in doing so. I've also grown this one and liked it, but in general I prefer cherries of other colors which I think have better tastes than the lighter colored ones, with a few exceptions.

Maria, I know you said you got your Champagne Cherry from Terry, but where did you get your Coyote seed from? In other words your Coyote may not be exactly the same as the Coyote sent to Adam by Craig LeHoullier who was the original recipent of that variety from M. Clemente. Which means that possibly your Coyote may not be the same as the Coyote that Adam sent to the folks here at Tville, for comparison with the CC seeds that were sent to Adam by Terry.


Carolyn

[barefootgardener]

My Champagne Cherry pic. I received my CC and Coyote seed from Adam, and grew out the two side by side in my GH. The CC skin was more translucent ivory/yellow color. Had a fruitier sweet taste right from the start, productive, but was slightly taller and bushier w/more leaf cover tnan Coyote..Leaf shape the same.

[barefootgardener]

Coyote, Seed came from Adam also..Skin/fruit more of a solid yellow in color..More mellow in taste, but got sweeter as season progressed. Same fruit size and productivity. Growth habit started out stronger, but was surpassed slightly in size by CC.

[mariabee63]

Barefoot, your photos are gorgeous, much more detailed than I can get with my camera. It's interesting that you came to the same conclusions as I did, even though the seeds came from a different source.
It seems obvious that the C and CC are different varieties, but so alike that for growing and eating purposes there is not enough difference to matter. Still, for seed saving they should be kept separate.

[Wi-sunflower]

Last summer I got the 2 varieties from Adam and i also got 1 other Coyote and 3 other CC from others.

I had a crummy growing year and didn't get good seeds from any of them, tho I do have seeds for myself to try again. What I have is very poor germinating due to being processed way too late. Whatever.

But while I was walking the fields one day last summer, I found all of them and tasted them at that time. Personally I thought 1 of the Coyote plantings tasted much better than any of the others. Sweeter and fruitier than the rest.

But that was just me. Maybe next year will be different. Hopefully a better growing / saving year for me.

Carol

[mariabee63]

Carol, I've found that in general the smaller varieties do not germinate as well as the larger ones. I'm not sure if others have noticed this as well. I've also noticed that sometimes a particular plant will be, as you said, tastier. Maybe that should be the plant to save seeds from?

Originally Posted by Wi-sunflower

I had a crummy growing year and didn't get good seeds from any of them, tho I do have seeds for myself to try again. What I have is very poor germinating due to being processed way too late. Whatever.

But while I was walking the fields one day last summer, I found all of them and tasted them at that time. Personally I thought 1 of the Coyote plantings tasted much better than any of the others. Sweeter and fruitier than the rest.


Carol

[barefootgardener]

Originally Posted by mariabee63

Barefoot, your photos are gorgeous, much more detailed than I can get with my camera. It's interesting that you came to the same conclusions as I did, even though the seeds came from a different source.
It seems obvious that the C and CC are different varieties, but so alike that for growing and eating purposes there is not enough difference to matter. Still, for seed saving they should be kept separate.

Thanks mariabee, I have a few seeds left and I plan to grow out both again this year. I did not get to save any seeds last season as everyone popped the tomatoes in their moiuths as fast as they turned ripe..The grandson loved them!! LOL

[mariabee63]

You might find some self seeded plants next year in the same place. It's hard to find all those little tomatoes to harvest!

Originally Posted by barefootgardener

Thanks mariabee, I have a few seeds left and I plan to grow out both again this year. I did not get to save any seeds last season as everyone popped the tomatoes in their moiuths as fast as they turned ripe..The grandson loved them!! LOL

[barefootgardener]

Originally Posted by mariabee63

You might find some self seeded plants next year in the same place. It's hard to find all those little tomatoes to harvest!

...For sure..Cant wait to see what reseeds..Hope to remember to save a few seeds from both this year before we devour them all...

[smileytom]

I don't mean to drag up an old thread, but did this ever go anywhere as far as the history of CC?

In this year's season did anyone try growing Mirabelle Blanche next to CC to see how similar they were?

[Iva]

Mirabelle Blanche is a larger cherry that blushes with pink when fully ripe.
From all I've read and seen so far, both Coyote and Champagne Cherry look very similar to White Currant, which is a favorite of mine for taste. Did anyone grow those two (or any one of them) side by side with White Currant for comparison? I think these are three very similar varieties...

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Iva

Mirabelle Blanche is a larger cherry that blushes with pink when fully ripe.
From all I've read and seen so far, both Coyote and Champagne Cherry look very similar to White Currant, which is a favorite of mine for taste. Did anyone grow those two (or any one of them) side by side with White Currant for comparison? I think these are three very similar varieties...

First, Tom, no one has come up with the history of CC as to where it came from, as far as I know.

When Craig first got seeds from Maye Clement he grew them out and listed the variety initially as Ivory Currant in the SSE YEarbook. That was a mistake and they were then listed as Coyote.

I've always wondered if Ivory Currant kind of morphed into the name White Currant but haven't taken the time to look into that.

So perhaps White Currant, nee Ivory Currant, might be the same as Coyote.

The only one I've grown is Mirabelle Blanche, b'c I wanted to compare it with the variety Dr. Carolyn, which I originally had named Ivory Mutant, ahem, not knowing how it came about from saved seeds of Galina's Yellow.

And I still don't know how those saved seeds from Galina's gave me plants that each had different colored cherries, such as pink and red and salmon and yellow and then the pale one that I gave a working name to of Ivory mutant and which Steve Draper named Dr. Carolyn. Steve was also getting different colored cherries from saved seeds of Galina's and this was right after Bill McDorman brought back Galina;s from Siberia.

So we both concluded that what we got was a genetically unstable Galina's, but that's years ago now.

Mirabelle Blanche and Dr. Carolyn were quite different.

In the meantime Joe Bratka had bred several white cherries such as Snow White, Super Snow White, Rabbit and Ghost, of which the only one I grew was Snow White, again to compare with Dr. Carolyn.

[nancyruhl]

I grew both varities last year, though not side by side. All I remember is that the Champagne Cherry fuit looked and tasted just like Coyote, but they were larger. I was very pleased to have found what I thought had the taste impact of Coyote, but in a larger cherry sized tomato.

[barefootgardener]

So perhaps White Currant, nee Ivory Currant, might be the same as Coyote

Carolyn, I have grown White Currant before and the fruit of White Currant is smaller than Coyote, but the fruit is very similiar in taste! Both are yummy!