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#31 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Czech republic
Posts: 2,534
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No variety, which is called in Italy Pienollo del Vesuvio exist. It's just a general name for tomatoes (Principe Borghese, .........), which has more than 150 years grown around the volcano Vesuvius.
The "Tomato Piennolo Vesuvius PDO" brings together old local cultivars and biotypes united by morphological and qualitative characteristics more or less similar, the selection of which has been carefully decades by the farmers themselves. The names of these ecotypes are popular attributed by the local producers, such as "Fiaschella", "bulb", "Patanara", "Principe Borghese" and "Re Umberto", traditionally cultivated for centuries in the same area of origin. All these tomatoes have a normal tomato leaves. All have a normal tomato leaves. Tomato called Pienollo del Vesuvio with potato leaf introduced here on Tomatoville member Fusion Power. There is no problem to grow tomatoes that look like those exported to piennolo- pendulum. But their quality is not responsible for storing to those from the area around Vesuvius. I know from my own experience of five years. Vladimír |
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#32 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
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You mentioned long keepers, these are the ones that Glen Drowns at Sandhill Preservation lists. Giraffe,aka zhirav I think Green Paint Green Thumb Old Fashioned Garden Peach Ruby Treasures Winterkeeper Yellow Out Red In Not a de colgar type listed. And yes, there have been MANY hybrids bred so ripening is delayed, not stopped,since they breed in the following genes,nor,rin and alc, all of which delay ripening and it allows for transit of those pale pink yukky ones you see in the grocery stores usually in the winter, sent up from FL and Mexico primarily. And while I'm at it,do you know about the F1's that are bred for gassibility? Meaning harvested green and put in huge chambers and gassed with ethylene gas,and that since it's that gas that is made as part of the normal ripening process. All I want are some darn good tasting tomatoes to be grown here at home each summer. ![]() Carolyn
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#33 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2016
Location: PA - 5b
Posts: 92
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Carolyn, thanks for your response. I figured you would have a crack at it.
I am not familiar with the Sandhill list although you do mention "Not a de colgar type listed." That was actually my point, considering the thread this question is in. Perhaps I wasn't really very clear but my real question is about what some of these "long keepers" may have in common with the Piennolo varieties, if anything. I'm assuming, and it seems supported by what I've seen, that these must have some long keeping qualities in order to be subjected to such a process. Do these qualities arise in the same fashion or another way? I do not know about any "gassable" ones but have assumed that they exist. I hope I never see any. My other point concerned the "MANY hybrids bred so ripening is delayed" and my hypothesis that this is NOT the same thing, which you appear to confirm. Also, I really don't accept that in these ripening is merely delayed. Yes, I can see how that breeding technique would presuppose a delay rather than the finality I have suggested. However, when I grew an F1 (Rebelion) from our favorite breeder that begins with a "V", and, although eye-poppingly red, they were so bad that I had to get a 5 gallon bucket to haul them out into the woods and dump them, and when I had to do that again almost a month later and found the original lot still there and still in the same condition, it looks pretty definitive to me. I allow you the prerogative to say "delayed" but I will stick to "cannot". ![]() However, that was not my original drift. WOuld you like to elaborate? Or maybe another member can have a tilt at it. |
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#34 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 416
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De colgar tomatoes have the "alc" gene, which together with smaller size and thick skin, make tomatoes that store 5-12 months at room temperature. They keep for months even if picked fully ripe. They are in no way similar to supermarket tomatoes. They will keep fully ripe on cold wet soil for weeks, even months. They do mature, and can be great off the vine (diversity is huge, so some are much better than others, specially when most are not selected for eating fresh in a salad). I have quite a few tomatoes sitting around, picked late July, waiting me to take seeds out. And my storage conditions are far from ideal. "alc" affects storage life, but also aroma, taste and color. They usually have an odd uneven color with shades. Plants heterozygous for alc, solve the color issue. Some new hybrids use it. There is information on this gene on the net. For unknown reasons to me, "rin" and "nor" were more known and used, when it seems pretty clear that results were not ... well, they sold those tomatoes, so I guess they can call it a success as there was no need to solve or improve anything. |
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#35 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2016
Location: PA - 5b
Posts: 92
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Thanks, ilex, that helps a lot.
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#36 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,892
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Ilex, that is fascinating.
I can't wait to grow this tomato and see how it tastes for myself, although I'm not wild about tomatoes with thick skins. I will make an exception since it stores so incredibly well ![]() I wonder if we need to add some Sulphur to the potting mix to try to duplicate that volcanic essence? Keeping them dry farmed would be no problem with pots. Linda |
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#37 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Czech republic
Posts: 2,534
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For me, the taste of stored Colgar disappointing as well Piennolo. I do not have the right conditions for their growth (weather).
Vladimír |
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#38 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 416
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#39 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,591
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Several years ago I made a trade with an Italian that lives in England. She sent me several Italian varieties (no piennolo type) and a couple of Spanish varieties. One was just named De Colgar. I finally got to planting all of them this year. It will be interesting to see WHAT De Colgar I have.
I also have the Piennolo that was sent around by Fusion, tho it didn't grow well for me originally. I'm also growing that this year again. So many interesting varieties and characteristics to watch. Not on the list of "long keepers" is the variety Red October. It was a commercial variety for a few years about 10 years ago. My Ukrainian worker at that time was excited about it since that is a popular Russian name referring to the 1917 revolution. I don't believe I have any seeds for that one any more tho. Carol |
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#40 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,892
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I just checked out "volcanic soil" and was surprised to learn that it is high in nutrients and holds water well! It looked very dry in that video, so maybe it is like peat in that regard.....
Wi-Fi Sunflower, I love the name Red October! Reminds me of that movie staring Sean Connery! How off-topic can I go???? Linda |
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#41 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 416
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What I saw in the video is that the area is humid by my standard per the trees and plants that grew around. I wouldn't dream of growing those trees here without lots of irrigation.
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#42 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2016
Location: PA - 5b
Posts: 92
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I've also looked at a little on these soils. It seems the water-holding capacity
is a little bit of a "trick". One explanation has it something like rice krispies. When the fluid molten rock is expelled, it goes from being under extreme pressure to being under no pressure. Consequently, it suddenly expands and takes on a sponge-like, porous character. This material can hold a lot of water that it will pick up from underground flows. But it is deep. Looking at the consistency of the soil being tilled in the above videos, you can see that this surface soil is not holding any water, even if it could. So, I'm hypothesizing that the plants must be adapted to sending deep roots to tap the massive amounts of water farther underground. This brings us to the idea of growing these in containers. I don't think it would be feasible to duplicate such a structure. Probably one would have to rely on a more or less normal container soil. Soggy, I guess wouldn't do it. Do whatever amendments would be needed (sand?) to make it very well-draining and plan to water frequently. That's my guess. Anybody want to add to it? |
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#43 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
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You used to be a listed SSE member but checking I see you aren't any more, and I ask since if you were you could see how many different ones that Ilex lists in the current 2017 SSE Yearbook As for Red October, I remember that one as well,went looking,Tania doesn't list it and now I know why. I did a Google search and this is what I came up with https://www.google.com/search?q=red+...&bih=790&dpr=1 I couldn't tell from the listings if it's still being sold but yes,an F1 hybrid and with few exceptions Tania doesn't list any hybrids. Carolyn
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#44 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 416
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Dry farming is an art, were you basically store water in the soil and prevent losing it. Loose soil in the surface prevents water from being lost through capillarity action.
Just checked some climatic data from the area ... 877 mm avg per year. That's double what we get here, and it seems they get rain all winter. We get most in October and then ... you never know. I'm sure they can dry farm without many problems. |
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#45 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ontario
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As Ilex noticed, the trees and shrubs in the vicinity like lots of water, so it would be easy to be led astray by seeing the very dry soil in the video and thinking that the plants needed to be dry. I dry farm here some summers as I use black plastic on top of the soil, and I don't usually give extra water all summer. The difference here is that once the roots get beyond the 6" of aged manure, they hit CLAY, which probably retains water in most years. Last year we had a drought and I did give some supplemental water. Think I will just grow my Piennolo in pots, in good potting mix, just like I do with the other compact varieties....... ![]() Linda Last edited by Labradors2; March 28, 2017 at 02:17 PM. |
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