Hilbert's Grand tomato Hotel - 2016

[bower]

May as well start with a mistake. I misjudged the flower color; I thought cold sensitivity - purpling of both seedlings one in the cup and the other in the less optimal soil of the container - was a sign that the plants were crossed. I forgot to consider:
(a) that this cold sensitivity might be within the genetics of the cross and
(b) that cold treatment of seedlings, which is to activate gene expression for cold tolerance, was also omitted.
Jury is still out, is this line now cold intolerant??? or a fluke of environment.
The fruit as shown below, black. No sign of traits from any other plant, in all ways similar to the F2 Beist B1 except for cold sensitivity and potassium deficiency in the fruit.

Since a friend was growing out more Beist F2's this season, my excuse for adding a couple of Beist F3's to the guest list was to check/ confirm my expectation that the 'early flowering' trait would be fixed after selecting in the F2 (only one of six), and that this part of earliness would behave as a simple recessive, like PL or black.
Wrong.

As you can see in the data, there is a big spread between the two seedlings days to flower, which can't be accounted by vigor or environmental causes.

Last comment on the Beist, I was truly surprised to find it was tastier than the early F2 fruit, and sweeter in spite of the K-related uneven ripening. (see blotches on small fruit - which eventually ripened but took much longer than unaffected parts).

[bower]

I ended up growing only three of these, as four seedlings perished/were culled early. Yes, I hoped that the pointy trait would be already fixed, or would segregate into hearts/pears/combinations. Instead I got only one of three with the desired shape.
Luckily for me, it also had the same great taste qualities as the F1 - while the rounder siblings were pretty ordinary by comparison.
PL turned up as a recessive. There was no sign of the super earliness of the KimXKupola cross, nor of the compact growth habit, nor of the size potential from Z. Kupola. Just cherries, and lightweights at that. I may look for a yellow heart in the KimKupola line and try backcrossing with the Warbler to see if I can get something earlier, larger, more compact and just as tasty... eventually.
I have no idea whether this pretty shape will be stable in the next generation...
For now, the really worst trait of the line, for my circumstance, is the long, leggy, skyscraping growth habit, which was present in all three F2s. I made a side cross this year, between the pointy-select Warbler and V. Desyatku - an early, compact, semi-determinate yellow beef.

[bower]

Again I only grew two of these, checking earliness and finding the spread between the two was actually similar to the spread in the F2. The second, slightly later plant also produced slightly smaller fruit but otherwise very similar.
There was a noticeable radial striping in the earlier plant, which I don't recall from the F2 and which reminds me of the Zolotye Kupola parent. Texture was nice and smooth, and the taste was very well received by Hope and other family members. It was both tangy and sweet, "nothing like a supermarket tomato". My only criticism would be that it lacks the intensity of flavor which is found in the absolute best tomatoes. Earliness at 101 days is great for a non cherry fruit.
I also grew a couple of F1s, of a side cross last year between Hope's Early F2 and Winter Sky F2, to see what kind of texture would result from the soft X the firm.
The two F1s were completely different: a dark red plum with smooth texture and very tasty; and a pointy Beta/- orange-red which was as firm as any of the Zolotoe Serdtse lines. Firm being a polite word for "hard to rock hard in some cases".

[bower]

Here they are, red and orange red.
I used F3 representatives of Hope's Early and Winter Sky to make a size/shape comparison pic.

[bower]

One thing that really surprised me was to find that the HExWS F1 red had so much darker flesh than the red parent Hope's Early. The pic below was taken to show the difference, after I had scooped out seeds. Slice of a Hope's is on the left, the F1 plum on the right.

My first thought is that Hope's Early could still have a yellow allele kicking around from ZK parent. I will have to grow out more of them, maybe ten???? to screen for that recessive.

The other possibility is that there are some 'extra red' genetics coming from the Zolotoe Serdtse parentage... not sure what gene that might be, but the question was raised after I found the cherry/burgundy red fruit in the Sundog line.. and other color questions in the Winter Sky cohort..... will show and tell about those at the end.

[bower]

I grew four plants this season, and unfortunately they didn't all get the same treatment so I can't draw any firm conclusions about genetics vs. environment.
The first pic is of the four young plants before they were separated. Plants #1 and #3 in the data sheet are the two taller ones in the middle. Plants 2 and 4 had more compact growth habit, so I kept them in the greenhouse and put the other two out in the hotel lobby aka spruce rail tomato bus shelter. After awhile I also moved the inside greenhouse pair back against the wall to shelter them from blistering sun as they got close to the glass. They were not pleased with the shady situation. They dropped many blossoms, and started to make three leaves between clusters on the side shoots, instead of one or two - an obvious effect of environment. Plant 4 got moved after another while to the wood stacker extension outside, where it set somewhat better. However the fruit on both of these plants were somewhat smaller and also sour. Plants 1 and 3 also suffered for their outdoor environment, alternately drenched and baked, dessicated by high winds, and subjected to frosty nights. They both had a fair share of foliage disease, but continued to set nice clusters of fruit which were large cherries, and tasty and sweet. In the end I saved seed from plant 3 to carry forward, as the earliest and the better of the two outdoors, although I had hoped to stabilize the more compact plants I can't accept a compromise of fruit quality.

Growth habit as documented at 90 days is shown in the graphics- top to bottom plants # 1,2,3,4... the leaf cluster pattern at F4 is not stable, really.

[bower]

Also listed in the data sheet above, two plants of this F1 cross were grown, and were not really distinguishable from one another. They were vigorous plants that set well and tolerated the outdoor environment very well. Fruit was tasty with a good (not hard!) cherry texture, pointy red, and couldn't really be distinguished from one another, flowering and ripening at the same time.

Comparison pic shows fruit of BlkNip F4 #2 and Winter Sky F3-1 to represent the parents of the previous generation.

[KarenO]

Really interesting! These projects of yours are all so different but all with the goal of earliness combined with cool/ maritime weather tolerance. If you had to choose only one to keep going with, which would you pick?
Karen

[KarenO]

Originally Posted by bower

Also listed in the data sheet above, two plants of this F1 cross were grown, and were not really distinguishable from one another. They were vigorous plants that set well and tolerated the outdoor environment very well. Fruit was tasty with a good (not hard!) cherry texture, pointy red, and couldn't really be distinguished from one another, flowering and ripening at the same time.

Comparison pic shows fruit of BlkNip F4 #2 and Winter Sky F3-1 to represent the parents of the previous generation.

Love the looks of this one,
K

[bower]

In general these were very much like the F1 - early, sweet, with a dense chewy texture I like. It was easy to choose the best - most vigorous, sweetest and best setting red-black identical to the F1. Recessive traits showed up out of six plants; one determinate, and one pink-black. Two had cherry fruit, and possibly the "locule number" multiplier gene is absent from this line. The pink-black had larger fruit and was as sweet and good as its sibling, so carrying that line forward as well. I was so excited to see a determinate, but the early fruit were particularly awful - both mushy and sour. It was the only different texture to turn up in five plants - the sixth got culled due to being way later than the others.

[bower]

I put two of the Skippers in an extension of the spruce rail shelter, with no overhead support and nothing but a board around to keep from tipping of their pots and cages. This is a bit of a frost pocket and they really got the worst of it, but kept on setting and stayed pretty healthy. The plants are sturdier and less prone to foliage disease than the Black Nipper parent. The pink-black fruit is delicious. Larger fruit than the siblings may be just a side effect of being outdoors and bombarded with bumblebee action. Or perhaps there will be more variation than I think, in the F3.

[bower]

Only four plants, two smaller and two larger, multilocule fruit. The small fruit were similar to the Skipper but a bit larger, dense, meaty and sweet. One of them was determinate and slightly blunt heart shaped. It set well and remained healthy outdoors, not revealing the determinate trait until late in the season. I do hope these seeds are not crossed because I'm very excited about this plant, although it was not the earliest. But the earliest and largest fruit had a completely different texture - silky smooth, and very sweet and tasty. A real keeper for taste, but many shape defects - catfacing, bulgy bits etc. I really have no idea whether this sort of thing may segregate out and leave me a nicely shaped fruit. ???? Although not what I was aiming for, the flat ruffly shape is cool. The second plant kept in the greenhouse had smaller fruit in very large clusters as shown.
As with Kitten Paws, I don't know how much of the cluster size was genetic or environmental.

[bower]

Hey why not slip in a couple of plants of a side cross - this is Hilbert's Hotel remember? Only two, practically nothing. Or is this Noah's ark, two at a time?
Yes I crossed Rodney F1 with A.U., and wanted to see how the segregation for sweetness would play out. I figured a pretty sure thing, since A.U. was sweet and so was Rodney....
Wrong!
The earlier of the two, shown in the data table above, and occupying prime greenhouse hotel space, was not a bit sweet. It was a pointy and otherwise ordinary salad sized red, worthy of the epithet "It's a tomato."
The one that got shuffled outdoors turned out to be the sweet one. Of two. 1/2.

[bower]

Originally Posted by KarenO

Really interesting! These projects of yours are all so different but all with the goal of earliness combined with cool/ maritime weather tolerance. If you had to choose only one to keep going with, which would you pick?
Karen

Ah, what a good question that is!
As I'm going through and posting this, I can't believe the number of projects I crammed in. And it was way too much.
I'm going to have to make some tough decisions about next year. Kind of hoping it'll become clearer to me by writing this up and squinting at the data.

[bower]

Originally Posted by KarenO

Love the looks of this one,
K

One of the curiosities that prompted me to make side crosses, is wondering what kind of F1s would be produced by very different lines if or when they are grown out to stability. That is, if certain needed traits can't be stabilized in an OP.

The segregation of texture traits is very mysterious. So many of the crosses from Zolotoe Serdtse have leaned towards the hard side. They also have potassium metabolism issues in adverse conditions - prone to uneven ripening. This is a serious flaw when the environment is as unpredictable as ours.
At the same time, it seems that the ruggedness of the plants in these crosses is also coming from the ZS parent. That Beta came from the wild relative at some point, and there are other traits being expressed here and there, that also seem to harken from that side of the gene pool. Wierd color traits, I will show a few pix coming up. And the outstanding sweetness in Skipper and Rodney.

So I am deeply curious about ways of combining the helpful traits, from a line which is difficult to work with otherwise - at least if your resources are at all limited - because your whole crop may be pretty well no good (except for sauce, there's always the sauce....)