Why not grow hybrids instead of heirlooms?

[gssgarden]

I have yet to come across a hybrid that tastes like a KBX, Cherokee Purple or Pink Berkeley Tie Dye! Flavor that overwhelmes your senses with each bite!

Greg

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by gssgarden

I have yet to come across a hybrid that tastes like a KBX, Cherokee Purple or Pink Berkeley Tie Dye! Flavor that overwhelmes your senses with each bite!

Greg

SETTFest 2010: the taste competition was conceded to have been won by a hybrid. And to this day, I am convinced that this website's subsequent glorification of Atkinson got heeded by Bonnie's and that's when they started bringing that old market hybrid back into production.

[zero244]

I don’t have any gripe against hybrids. If someone wants to hybridize some tomatoes and sell the seed that is fine. Overall the majority of OP tomatoes are going to taste better than hybrids.
The problem is we need to keep OP stains available, if for no other reason than should seeds become hard to get you can rely on your seeds that were saved from a previous grow.
This year 2015 I am going to grow one hybrid called Grandaddy and save some seeds and see if it breeds true. Everything else is going to be Heirloom or OP.
In human history many people have starved because they could not produce seeds for the next years crop.
Becoming dependant on hybrid vegetables, corporate farming or even family farms I would not like to do.

[Worth1]

Too bad we cant cross tomatoes with peppers and okra.
We could call it topepamokra.

Sorry I'm beat, I have been grinding meat to make Knackwurst.


Worth

[PaulF]

Does that mean you are all knackered out?

[AlittleSalt]

Paul, that is funny

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by PaulF

Does that mean you are all knackered out?

Well the (((Wurst))) of its over all I have to do now is smoke it for a few hours and then start on the next half tomorrow.

I'm making about 20 pounds worth that is worth about $80 dollars for about $28 dollars at the going rate.
Not bad for a days work.

I see a big electric grinder and a sausage stuffer in my very near future my arms are killing me.

As for the question that was asked, I dont care what it is as long as it isn't store bought unless it is an heirloom store bought that you can by from the store.


Worth

[Starlight]

The weather is terrible outside, so I am sitting here trying to organize my tomato and pepper seeds and see what I have. The thought running through my head is that with the heirlooms, like mentioned above, folks can save seed and maybe hold off starvation at some point.

But what happens when you can't get your favorite hybrid anymore? I'm sitting here with some older hybrid seed and having to google it to see if anybody is even selling it any more.

I do grow both. Excited about the new heirlooms I plan to start, but am adding Boy-Oh-Boy a new hybrid for me to the list too.

[Cole_Robbie]

When I sell plants in the spring, I grow Big Beef as my only hybrid; the rest are heirlooms or modern OP varieties. I ask people if they are fairly new at gardening, and if so I recommend Big Beef. If they say they are experienced gardeners, then we talk about heirlooms.

The heirloom/hybrid discrepancy is not nearly as great with cherry tomatoes, at least in my opinion. Sungold is a good example.

Peppers, on the other hand, in my experience reward the buying of expensive hybrid seeds, especially with bells, and especially as a market grower looking for yield.

[Worth1]

I tested the sausage if I didn't know better I would say it was knackwurst.
I just made the recipe up out of my head and from past experience.

Worth

[Dewayne mater]

For me, my top 10 reasons to grow heirlooms are all taste.

I do grow Big Beef and Sungold annually and I do admit one of my favorites is a hybrid, sungold.

However, no beefsteak sized hybrid is even in the ballpark of flavor of any of a number of those in the Brandywine line and a few of the black tomatoes I adore. I cannot count the number of folks who have been converted to heirloom mania by one taste of a fully ripe heirloom tomato grown in my suburban yard.

I will say that for folks that do this for financial reasons, in DFW the price that heirlooms command from both high end restaurants and farmers markets are substantially higher than hybrids.

Also on my list of why grow Heirlooms is that I do not want Big Food Inc commanding complete control of the food supply. They will always do what they believe achieves maximum profits and that's ok. However, I think they determine profits in the short term and are unconcerned with aspects of farming that I believe we should all be concerned with. Examples some of the pesticides, fertilizers and GMOs have been created with the well meaning idea of maximizing yield. The problem I have with the way they maximize yield is they only look at the impact of yield of this crop and ignore what you are doing to the food itself, the land, the environment and ecosystem, and they do not taking into account the true cost of the food created.

I don't think people that think in this way are good stewards of the land or the people and they shouldn't be allowed to control all aspects of the food supply.

Dewayne Mater

[drew51]

Originally Posted by Dewayne mater

For me, my top 10 reasons to grow heirlooms are all taste.

I do grow Big Beef and Sungold annually and I do admit one of my favorites is a hybrid, sungold.

However, no beefsteak sized hybrid is even in the ballpark of flavor of any of a number of those in the Brandywine line and a few of the black tomatoes I adore. I cannot count the number of folks who have been converted to heirloom mania by one taste of a fully ripe heirloom tomato grown in my suburban yard.

I will say that for folks that do this for financial reasons, in DFW the price that heirlooms command from both high end restaurants and farmers markets are substantially higher than hybrids.

Also on my list of why grow Heirlooms is that I do not want Big Food Inc commanding complete control of the food supply. They will always do what they believe achieves maximum profits and that's ok. However, I think they determine profits in the short term and are unconcerned with aspects of farming that I believe we should all be concerned with. Examples some of the pesticides, fertilizers and GMOs have been created with the well meaning idea of maximizing yield. The problem I have with the way they maximize yield is they only look at the impact of yield of this crop and ignore what you are doing to the food itself, the land, the environment and ecosystem, and they do not taking into account the true cost of the food created.

I don't think people that think in this way are good stewards of the land or the people and they shouldn't be allowed to control all aspects of the food supply.

Dewayne Mater

Well the problem is to make a profit you have to give the people what they want, so if you insist on blaming somebody blame the masses who insist on perfect tomatoes that have a long shelf life. The companies only make money when they sell product. They are producing exactly what most people want. Change the people's minds and they will change too. They could care less what they produce as long as it sells, and if people would buy products only made in a sustainable way, they would only grow products that way. What you are asking them to do is go out of business because if they produce in a way you find favorable they will not survive, so of course they are not going to change. I wouldn't either!

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by drew51

What you are asking them to do is go out of business because if they produce in a way you find favorable they will not survive.

Yep! Out of business! A wonderful idea! Not us though, them!

But to do that you need a competitive alternative. Hence my project and a 1000 more like it! Can't replace one food system without another better system to take it's place. Any producer who tries that will not survive. That takes infrastructure, so it can't happen overnight. Start with the ground up. Everything starts in the soil. Then you have a strong foundation to build on. Next comes genetics. To have good genetics you need to conserve the heirlooms! Hybrids are good, but the problem is that the vast majority of hybrids were developed for industry and not for things like taste. There is no reason at all hybrids can't be bred for that alternative infrastructure that values quality. That way when their foundation crumbles, there is an alternative to jump right in and take it's place. It's happening already. Expect it to grow. But you are right. The ideal thing we ask is for them to go out of business, but to do that we must first develop the alternative in a way that can survive and compete head to head.

[Marcus1]

I grow both hybrids and heirlooms. Last season about 2200 hybrids and 500 heirlooms. My customers buy the hybrids more than the heirlooms by probably a 7 to 1 margin. I don't agree with the blanket statements that hybrids lack flavor nor do my customers judging by their complements and their purchases. I would put a well grown Goliath (Pio) up against just about all the different heirlooms I grow for flavor on my farm here in CO. Don't get me wrong I enjoy all the various flavors of the different heirlooms I grow but my primary goal is to provide my customers with what they desire .

[Sun City Linda]

I agree that there are surely many good tasting hybrid tomatoes but I don't think most of us would consider your typical, cardboard, picked green and gassed grocery store tomato in that category.