The Red Baron Project year two

[Tracydr]

My front yard is mostly shaded. I have a yard full of "mimosa" weed and poke. It's pretty small so I'm going to cover with cardboard and get a grass/clover mix for shade. Just waiting for a bit more of a cool down to make sure I get good germination.

[kenny_j]

I may have mis-spoken earlier. A lot of mixed grass seed is made for subdivision type lawns, with all grass and no clover for that finely manicured look. So make sure you have clover in what you buy if that is what you want. Some mixes contain micro-clover, which grows more evenly with lawn grass, micro only grows to max of a few inches. It is 6 times as expensive as dutch white, but a little bit goes a long ways, especially in a grass mix. There is also a mini-clover that is about half the price of micro, and it is used in lawn mixes as well. Google both types to read up on it. Good luck on your lawn.

kj

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

My front yard is mostly shaded. I have a yard full of "mimosa" weed and poke. It's pretty small so I'm going to cover with cardboard and get a grass/clover mix for shade. Just waiting for a bit more of a cool down to make sure I get good germination.

You ever eat the poke.?

It is very good.

Worth

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Worth1

You ever eat the poke.?

It is very good.

Worth

Yes it is very good, but also poisonous. Anyone who wants to eat poke needs to learn how to remove the poison first. (basically by boiling and rinsing 3 times)

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

Yes it is very good, but also poisonous. Anyone who wants to eat poke needs to learn how to remove the poison first. (basically by boiling and rinsing 3 times)

Yeah we only cut the plants in the spring about 18 inches tall boiled and drained three times.
Allens has been known to sell it from time to time.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...H5pC6sOPEFNb5w

[Dutch]

That reminds me of a song sung by Tony Joe White called Polk Salad Annie.

Moved to “What are you listening to?” thread to allow this page to load faster.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showpost....&postcount=588

Dutch

[Tania]

Scott, thank you so much for posting the video, it is very educational!

Tatiana

[kenny_j]

Dutch, you beat me to the punch on Poke Salad Annie, great song!!!

[kenny_j]

An update on what I am doing. 1st pic shows 2 new beds laid out, and killed off. I planted them with solid Dutch white clover around Sept 6. Was gonna try not tilling at all, but was afraid of poor germination, so I set the tiller shallow and cut up the top inch or so, which didn't even take out all the weeds starting to germinate. 4 days later and I see the little clover plants started, . Next year I'll mow short and lay down gray felt 2' wide to plant tomatoes in. Or cut circle of felt just larger than cages,with a slit to install after planting. If I plant corn, I'll till a narrow strip for each row. I now have 5 ingrounds of this size. The 2 behind these new ones will sit in just clover next season. Rotation, rotation, rotation.
Next pic shows compost pile, been doing this type a couple years now. This mostly tomato debris will go on tomato gardens just after rotating out of tomatoes. Need to make one more with non-tomato debris to use around tomato plants.

Next couple pics show septoria on ash suckers and Blackeyed susans. Need to clean up the ash, but the susans are everywhere, and I really like them, plus many are on the neighbors side of the fence now. Not sure if this is the same septoria and able to transfer into tomatoes. Sent an email out but never got a response about this from the university. Lots to do but under an all day rain today.

ADD: In the first pic you can see some tomato plants in the back left. There were 12 back there, in new ground that only had corn just last yr. Septoria was rampant, but barely affected these plants. Late blight did get them finally tho, but it is not soil borne this far north.

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by Worth1

You ever eat the poke.?

It is very good.

Worth

It already had blue berries on it when I was able to identify it. I don't know if I ever saw it in OK or CO but it didn't look familiar. Looks like the caterpillars like it because most of the leaves are eaten. I'll try it next spring.

[Tracydr]

Now I know what is causing all of my oaks and various other trees to be spotted. Please post when you find out if this is the same as tomato septoria. It's all over my property.

[kenny_j]

There are tons of spot diseases caused by different pathogens. But I googled specifically septoria with both ash and rudbeckia, and pictures shown looked similar to what I have, so not sure about any of it. Here is the text I sent to a disease expert at University of Delaware:
I hope you have the time to answer this question. Is septoria that forms on ash tree leaves and or rudbeckia, the same type that forms on tomato plants? And as a general rule, are many of the leaf diseases able to cross infect a wide range of different plant types? My tomatoes get septoria every yr, less severe when rotated, but it is always present. I now realize that the Rudbeckia and Green Ash along my fence all look like they have septoria every year. Can this be the source for my tomatoes? Should I be concerned as a tomato enthusiast of getting rid of the rudbeckia? The ash is mostly gone due to borers, but I still have suckers coming out of some stumps I have not gotten rid of yet, and they are heavily infected. Can't seem to find an answer no matter how much I search, Thanx in advance.

Kenneth D Jacobs
That was sent on Aug 28, no response yet.

[kenny_j]

Hard to read article for all the terminology seems to support the idea that septoria can cross over to different plant groups. It is interesting to me that only the unhealthy ash suckers have it badly. I still have a few small ash trees that the borers haven't got that don't seem to have it, or not badly anyway.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...66061614600051

Note this near the end of the 1st paragraph: It is concluded that trans-family host jumping is a major force driving the evolution of Septoria .

Scroll down and there are hunreds of species of septoria listed. Near the end a list of host plants that does NOT include tomatoes or ash, but does include the aster group that rudbeckia is part of. These lists are only what was looked at in this study!!! I have a headache! After looking at this I expect no answer to my email, it is too complicated, and modern science just doesn't know IMO.

[Labradors2]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

Kenny , I love your garden. Do you know if the white clover is shade tolerant? I'd love to plant as a grass sub in some of my part shade areas.

Tracy,

You might want to check out Mondo grass for your area. It grows in the shade and doesn't need mowing!

Linda

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Labradors2

Tracy,

You might want to check out Mondo grass for your area. It grows in the shade and doesn't need mowing!

Linda

That might be a good thing for Tracy, but for the Red Baron Project a grass that doesn't need mowing would be pretty useless. The idea behind the Project is to establish a regenerative agricultural biome for growing crops by taking advantage of the below soil effects of exudates. Exudates that are produced by a living root and increase in a massive flush when the cover crop is mowed, but is still alive to regrow.

That way there is always a living root in the soil, and always food for the micro-organisms in the soil. Then those micro-organisms release the nutrients in an effect called mineralization. (basically they eat each other and the waste is food for plants) That constant supply should both increase the carbon in the soil, and improve soil structure, while at the same time provide enough nutrients that we don't need to add large inputs of fertilizers.

That's the theory anyway.