Shallots & Shallot Seeds (not sets)

[Gardeneer]

[QUOTE=zipcode;730550]The seeds you find can be for actual shallot or for fake shallot (sometimes called banana shallot).
To get them to bolt, you need certain conditions, since they just multiply when everything is right. Like starting them when it's too cold, or heat followed by cold, something like that.
I also can't say I find anything garlicky about them, but my favourites for fresh eating are the roundish ones which are somewhat pink inside. For example Red Sun (really excellent). The yellow round ones have poor taste (Yellow Moon), like a common yellow onion. The long and small expensive ones have been really too hot for me, and the taste I would personally rate below the round ones (these I have only bought, from France, Nl, Ro, not entirely sure what variety but they were somewhat similar in high heat, might be good for cooking).[/QUOTE
Thanks, zipcode
Several years ago i planted some shallots in the fall. They all bolted.
This time i planted 4 weeks ago. They are round kind that i bought from Asian market. I am using some of them for cooking. Yeah, they are pinkish inside.
The ones i ,ve planted are growing nicely. I hope they,ll bulb. From the number of theeaves i can tell that they are dividing.

[bower]

Originally Posted by Tormato

This thread reminds me of my ultimate allium for aroma and flavor...ramps. It's almost that time of the year for the hunt. And, if the river don't rise too high, fiddleheads too.

Ramps and fiddleheads? ... Sounds like a marriage made in heaven.
Parsnips and lovage is one of my favorite spring weddings. That is if you have parsnips to dig after winter, of course.

[bower]

Nice and warm here today in the 40's F. Garlic tips are just through the ground. The shallots are coming up through their 'self mulching' leaves. Not bothered by our ups and downs. Pic of shallots and then a patch of chives for comparison, which I know are never affected by winter of any kind. One looks as hardy as the other, I don't think I will worry in future years about any well rooted shallots that winter over.

[ilex]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

I always wondered if shallotts can be grown from seed. Now i know.
I am growing some from store bought shallotts. They have popped up nicely. I wonder if they will bulb before it gets too hot.
To me shallotts are just a variety of dividing onion.. i have not noticed any garlic flavor in them. But i like them. Sometimes i don,t need a big onion, a shallott will do
So this is an experiment for me . I will try to let some bolt so that i can collect seeds.

I think grey shallots are one thing, and all the others are just onions, multiplier onions. The tricky part is getting them to flower, specially with older varieties. New varieties do flower often.

There's a lot of breeding potential with these.

[bower]

Originally Posted by ilex

I think grey shallots are one thing, and all the others are just onions, multiplier onions. The tricky part is getting them to flower, specially with older varieties. New varieties do flower often.

There's a lot of breeding potential with these.

I'm sure the grey shallots will always have a special place for gourmets, because of the subtle difference in taste. The shape is pretty too. But the other traits that distinguish shallots - multiplying, and being extra firm and long keeping, are most interesting to me, even if they are just multiplier onions.


I would think that producing seed regularly would interfere with production of bulbs. As this seems to be an either/or way of using resources to reproduce.... Maybe there is some happy medium, where you get flowers and seeds often enough to cross breed them, but not too often to interfere with your crop?

[Father'sDaughter]

I found the gray shallots a pain in the you-know-what for cooking given their small size and hard outer "shell." While the others may be more multiplying onion than anything else, they grow well, keep well, and are much easier to use. My shallot seeds are too old and none came up this year, so this summer I'll leave a couple of flower stalks on to harvest fresh seeds from.

[ilex]

Originally Posted by bower

I'm sure the grey shallots will always have a special place for gourmets, because of the subtle difference in taste. The shape is pretty too. But the other traits that distinguish shallots - multiplying, and being extra firm and long keeping, are most interesting to me, even if they are just multiplier onions.


I would think that producing seed regularly would interfere with production of bulbs. As this seems to be an either/or way of using resources to reproduce.... Maybe there is some happy medium, where you get flowers and seeds often enough to cross breed them, but not too often to interfere with your crop?

Non-flowering is a mix of selection and being multiplied vegetatively for generations (virus accumulation), specially the later. Once grown from seed, they flower easily as they start virus free. Only some bulbs flower, so you still get a crop.

More than medium, it's probably weather.

[ilex]

I've got a few breeding projects in mind, hope I find time soon.

Both taste, and multiplying ability are very useful traits.

[bower]

That sounds exciting, Ilex... keep us posted.
@FD, nice to hear your perspective on the grey. One of my friends tried these as well as several other types of shallots and I don't think they survived fall planting here. So they are not a great prospect for our climate.



I'll be very happy if some of my shallots produce seed this year. Even if they take two years to produce, it would be great to routinely plant and forget them until harvest time, without too much worry.

[bower]

Well I have searched the internet and nobody seems to have had the same situation I have, of overwintering shallots that divided but didn't bulb.

Main problem is, I planted them at the spacing which would be good if you expected a single bulb per seed. So they are obviously overcrowded, and today I moved them by clumps to give them at least a decent spacing between rows. First pic is early may as they're coming up through the mulch of their own leaves. Second pic after spacing. Some are oddly bent that is because they grew up and raised the mulch with their top leaves. Those that were protected by their own mulching also avoided the attentions of Mrs. Grouse, who has nipped really a lot of them, to my surprise. (and also nipped a few of my garlic).
There is a fair bit of variation in these shallots, some is pretty certainly genetic - some have a lot of red on the stems which makes the lower part look olive-brown, some have no red at all. So it will be interesting to see what comes - I hope they all produce bulbs. I couldn't space them any further apart as there is nowhere to put them except the same bed, which last summer also hosted some leeks.
So my big worry now is... have I attracted onion maggot flies? And if so, what should I do? As I was working on the transplanting today, there were a lot of flies pitching on the shallots. Some large, some small, it is hard to know what kind of flies they are or why so many would be on these plants and not on anything else. (none around the garlic or chives or perennial green onions etc). Could it be they are attracted by the sap because of the damage by the grouse? Or are they the maggot kind of flies and getting ready to destroy what I have planted? Any suggestions about preventive measures? Organic only, I don't use any chemicals.

[yardn_gardn]

I’ve found BT israelensis to be effective on fungus gnat larva, but in a greenhouse. It might be worth a try on onion maggot larvae too. I’m growing some Zebrune and Ambition shallots started from seed in the greenhouse and then set out in a raised bed similar to yours. But I did do a more traditional spacing of a couple of inches apart. I love the way the Ambition stores and am still using some from last season in cooking. This is my first try with Zebrune. What variety are you growing?

[bower]

Thanks, yardn_gardn! I was wondering about BTi. I have some mosquito dunks, which I've also used for fungus gnats - thought I might crumble one and bury a few bits around these guys just in case. It might help, and can only hurt flies so.... (I'm not too knowledgeable about flies, but I don't think this small patch would have an effect on the whole garden community anyway).

These shallot seeds came from shallots someone grew from McKenzie bulbs, and sent in to Nicky's swap. I'm pretty excited about how hardy they are.
I would certainly have spaced them more generously if I had more space or they were a bit less abundant. So hopefully I will get some bulbs to replant, and maybe the spacing will work next time... one thing for sure, the "multiplier" gene is pretty powerful in this lot.

[bower]

Just to update, a lot (most) of the shallots are bolting now in early June. I can't blame them, considering the weather has been horrible. Anyway the earliest ones are close to opening their flowers, and they are as far along as the chives in that regard. (We're just now getting leaves on the trees). Since they're going to flower very early, I am hoping that they'll have time to go ahead and make bulbs afterwards. Most of the buds are some shade of purple but a few look like they will have white flowers. Lots of variation in stalk color as well.

[Whwoz]

Looking good Bower, interested in seeing how they work out for you

[bower]

Well it is a prime opportunity to get some seed - maybe lots of seed. I've been thinking about it and went down the rows just to look at what traits are or might be genetic and should select this year. There are 72 individual clumps (maybe 71 iirc I divided one clump, but no flowers on that one anyway).
Aside from the stem and bud color traits which are very diverse, there is substantial variation in the size of the plants. I know that might be due to crowding or micro-environment but it could be genetics too, especially where size difference is extreme. So for starters I think I will pinch any buds off the plants with the smallest shoots, and let them be, see if they produce some small bulbs, but screen some of that tiny size out of the seed lot.
Also I think I might have to do two separate seed lots, those that are early and those that flower later.

On one hand, early flowering could also be "readily bolting" which you don't want to select for. But I have a theory in mind, that the early flowering may also have more time to get over it, and still bulb nicely in the fall as some of our perennial onions seem to do. Guess I'll see how that plays out this year. It would suit me to grow these as perennials.

TBH I am looking for early flowering alliums to help fill a gap in seasonal bee forage here as well. I would like to conserve all the color diversity, for now, maybe separate them in another year.
If anyone has other suggestions about how to select seed plants from this batch, would be welcome to hear.