Micro-tomato crosses

[tlintx]

Ooooooooooooo. If it were a little cooler I'd go camp by the mailbox!

Not to be jumping the gun, but I do think this could become a Project. Or at least a general clearinghouse for people interested in producing good tasting micro dwarfs. Lots of potential, and the benefits for people who can't traditionally garden are immense. Just think of a good tasting, lunchbox-sized tomato growing in a 2 liter bottle SIP on a desk in an office. Indoor growing for people with no sun or who have medical issues. Or just a small windowsill tomato for fresh Christmas salads.

If it's one thing I've never been accused of, it's a lack of enthusiasm. Can't wait to see what comes of it!

[ChrisK]

Precisely!

Originally Posted by tlintx

Ooooooooooooo. If it were a little cooler I'd go camp by the mailbox!

Not to be jumping the gun, but I do think this could become a Project. Or at least a general clearinghouse for people interested in producing good tasting micro dwarfs. Lots of potential, and the benefits for people who can't traditionally garden are immense. Just think of a good tasting, lunchbox-sized tomato growing in a 2 liter bottle SIP on a desk in an office. Indoor growing for people with no sun or who have medical issues. Or just a small windowsill tomato for fresh Christmas salads.

If it's one thing I've never been accused of, it's a lack of enthusiasm. Can't wait to see what comes of it!

[ChrisK]

Here is another one. Equivalent to a three way cross of Chibikko x Green Zebra x Sungold. It's about 12" tall.

[tlintx]

It is nuts how many flowers and fruit that little plant is supporting!

So, what size container? Soil? Fertilizer? I want mine to look like that!

I was also wondering, are the smallest tomato plant's fruits usually more tart/acidic because they don't have the leaf surface to produce lots of sugar? I picked a Sungold this morning that was extremely tart -- the plant has only a couple of leaves left, which is what got me wondering.

Tl

[sprtsguy76]

Looking very nice Chris! Looks somewhat like a mini Sun Gold!

Damon

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[ChrisK]

That is in a 6" dia x 6" tall pot. That plant is closer to 18" tall, actually. The plant shown is an F1 of a cross between two F1's, each of which shared Chibikko as the female, hence the dwarf phenotype showing up in this generation. I have 10 plants from this cross with a mix of determinate and indeterminates. Some of the indeterminates are great looking plants. Love heterosis!

Soil is my own simple mix of peat:perlite:soil amendment bark plus a handful of lime and slow release fertilizer per batch made up in one of those rope handle tubs. Some kind of soluble balanced fertilizer added while watering if the plants look like they are deficient. I usually let them tell me what they need by observation. They do take more fertilizer since they are watered twice per day in our heat and are in small terracotta pots.

I keep forgetting to taste the fruit though! I get too excited about collecting seeds!

I think the F2 should be interesting with green stripe segregating. Not sure what to expect....

The numbers of lines I have has quickly exceeded my capacity to follow them through.

Originally Posted by tlintx

It is nuts how many flowers and fruit that little plant is supporting!

So, what size container? Soil? Fertilizer? I want mine to look like that!

I was also wondering, are the smallest tomato plant's fruits usually more tart/acidic because they don't have the leaf surface to produce lots of sugar? I picked a Sungold this morning that was extremely tart -- the plant has only a couple of leaves left, which is what got me wondering.

Tl

[NickD]

Wow, I wish I'd found this thread sooner.

About a week ago (after reading about people trying to grow Red Robin in cubicles in the general discussion forum), I thought it would be interesting to try to get some more variety into the micro dwarf category (variety besides "tiny red fruit"). I ordered some seeds and received them yesterday.

My plan is to try crossing some of the Dwarf Project tomatoes with Red Robin, with the idea being to *hopefully* have dwarf F1s that I'll be able to grow out indoors this winter (because every gardener needs a winter project!).

For this season I was thinking I would try to get a Rosella Purple/Red Robin cross, and/or a Mr. Snow/Red Robin. I also have Beryl Beauty, Sleeping Lady, Arctic Rose, and New Big Dwarf plants in my garden, if you guys think one of those would make a more interesting cross.

Eventually, I guess my goal would be to obtain varieties that stay very compact (under 18 inches or so), but with different colored fruit than Red Robin. I also wouldn't complain if the fruit were a little bigger than Red Robin. Personally, my main use for a tomato like this would be indoor winter gardening (winter BLTs?).



Nick

[Darren Abbey]

Of the several saved seeds for "Tiny Tim" I grew out this spring, one plant turned out not to be a micro.

I'm pretty confident that I was being sufficiently paranoid about seed prep area cleanliness, so I'm leaning towards hybridization to explain the result. The other varieties grown nearby were "Indigo Rose" and "Italian Ice", both of which have traits I'm interested in crossing into the micro background. (I was planning to do the TTxIR cross this year.)

I'll be watching this plant as it develops, as hopefully there will be some traits which will help identify the pollen parent. Since there are two dwarfing loci ('d' dwarf; 'sd' sun-dwarf), 1/16 of the F2s should turn up micros... If the determinate trait ('sp' self-pruning) is considered important in the micros, then we get 1/64 of the F2s that will be micros... which means I'll have to save LOTS of seeds to screen.

[tlintx]

Very exciting to hear about the Red Robin crosses! Rosella Purple is a favorite of mine, so by all means, make it smaller so I can keep one on my kitchen windowsill 'til Christmas.

Darren, most of what you say normally goes right over my head the same way a 747 does (super fast and way, way, WAY up) but I think I actually understood this post.

Am I understanding correctly, that 1 in 16 seedlings from the F2 should be micro, but only 1 in 64 will be micro and determinate? Is there any way to tell if it's determinate or indeterminate other than letting it just grow?

[Darren Abbey]

Originally Posted by tlintx

Darren, most of what you say normally goes right over my head the same way a 747 does (super fast and way, way, WAY up) but I think I actually understood this post.

I've been trying to tone it down somewhat. ;-) Habits from working as a biologist die hard, however.

Originally Posted by tlintx

Am I understanding correctly, that 1 in 16 seedlings from the F2 should be micro, but only 1 in 64 will be micro and determinate? Is there any way to tell if it's determinate or indeterminate other than letting it just grow?

You got it. Letting them grow is the plan. The size categories should be apparent in the seedling stage, so screening for micros should be pretty quick. The micro-determinate TT started blooming for me at only a couple inches tall, so figuring out if the micros are det or not should also be pretty quick.

[ChrisK]

I dont know if Chibikko carries both dwarf alleles and I didn't pay attention to the segregation ratios or do a complementation test (that's too much like work!)

But, just to clarify. What I sent you is F3 seed which should be fixed for determinate and "micro-dwarf" so you can concentrate on color and taste of fruit.

Originally Posted by tlintx

Am I understanding correctly, that 1 in 16 seedlings from the F2 should be micro, but only 1 in 64 will be micro and determinate? Is there any way to tell if it's determinate or indeterminate other than letting it just grow?

[tlintx]

Oh, interesting! Thank you for doing the hard part. Was wondering where I was going to find 64 pots!

I'm thinking I will also pick up a couple of micros and see if I can successfully make a cross once it cools down a bit towards the end of September. There's no pollen out there right now, except maybe Juliet.


Tl

[sprtsguy76]

First crossed Fruit on RR and TT are starting to color up! Looks as if a fall growout of the F1's are very poSsible. Good news!

Damon

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[tlintx]

So exciting! Do you plan on continuing growouts inside over the winter?

I have seedlings sprouting as of today of the ones Chris sent me. Waiting for them to get big enough to pot up.

[sprtsguy76]

Originally Posted by tlintx

So exciting! Do you plan on continuing growouts inside over the winter?

I have seedlings sprouting as of today of the ones Chris sent me. Waiting for them to get big enough to pot up.

No I will shut things down after the fall grow outs. I dont have any space indoor.I will be very content being at the F2 stage ready for spring 2014. There should be plenty of seed to offer if all goes well. Look for my offering early 2014!

Damon

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