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#31 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Carolina Zone 8a
Posts: 1,205
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#32 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: California Central Valley
Posts: 2,543
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I see all these potions as backyard science. You read about something or come up with an idea on your own, you test it out, and you see if it works in your garden. The ones based on rice are "natural" as opposed to, say, some hucksters that suggest using toxins such as mothballs. (I, personally, would not use milk products on my garden, just as I would not ingest them.)
I don't see any problem with someone asking, hey, has anyone tried this stuff, and what did you notice? Experimenting and observing: the basics of science. This rooting-around stage, which comes before the rigorous tests with controls and peer review, is an important part of discovery. But so far I've seen only "shoulds" and arm waving, debates about who's drunk the coolaid and who hasn't, and vague statements about trying some unidentified substance and seeing overnight results -- which does indeed sound questionable. So I'm interested in specifics. What did you use on what plant, what were you attempting to fix, what results did you observe? |
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#33 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Carolina Zone 8a
Posts: 1,205
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The problem with casual observations is that correlation does not equal causation. Look how many people insist that applying lime after BER appears cures the problem.
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#34 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 692
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My garden has suffered with a slow decline over the past few years so I decided this year to adopt a different approach, going green. Well the chemicals didn't improve matters one bit. I have been making quality compost over a few years, I also started a worm farm to handle all the kitchen waste, so had the necessary to make ACT which I started earlier this year. Things I have noticed after spraying this over everything a number of times during the growing season. Much better root crops. Carrots and parsnips have never been as good. Brassicas are good, first real sized brussel sprouts from top to bottom of the stalk. Broccoli were good, but the Cauilflower not so. Interesting, I didn't suffer with Cabbage white butterflies this year, they just ignored the plants.. My fruit trees haven't suffered with Leaf roller caterpillars, if they hatched they quickly stopped feeding and dried up. I believe I have cured Apple scab on my Macintosh. My indoor plants and greenhouse suffered with Fungus gnats, no more after a couple of sprays. My raspberries canes are huge, over 7 feet tall, and the fruit were super, even the blueberries had a good crop. Tomatoes were a bit hit and miss, early blight was a problem and I lost some plants to bacterial wilt, but a couple of early girls were over 6 feet and had huge crops. I would like to improve the overall quality of my soil, it's mainly sand with low OM, so this fall I've added tons of well rotted sawdust over the whole garden, plus two loads on Municipal Compost. I would like to use BIM/EM to ensure I have the correct type of bacteria. I have had a soil test done. Thought I was short of calcium. but in fact it was short Magnesium, which I understand both of these go hand in hand. I also have Ph 7.7 which needs pronto treatment. I would suggest a soil test to all, I was way off base with my suspicions. Comments anyone? |
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#35 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,818
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I agree with you 100% on the soil test. You just need to know what you're dealing with before you can try to fix it. As for the IBM/EM, I just really don't know much about it. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why spraying something on your plants would improve the tilth of your soil...which in my opinion, is the secret to growing good plants. If you add compost that had been composted on your own ground, wouldn't that be introducing the local bacteria you're trying to get?
Does that make sense?
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Barbee |
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#36 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Carolina Zone 8a
Posts: 1,205
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When plants are sprayed with the EM/BIM solutions, pathogenic organisms are supposedly prevented from infecting the plants because the EM/BIM organisms either grow on the leaves and stems and crowd out any pathogens or because the EM/BIM solution makes the plants so amazingly healthy they fight off the pathogens. At least, that's what I think the theory is, I get a little confused, different practitioners have made different claims. |
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#37 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 692
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Then of course you can, and I have, used a soil drench when watering the garden. So my soil has been getting a double dose. Bear in mind, your ACT is only as good as the worm casts or compost you use. If there is anything missing in either of them, then obviously it will be missing in your ACT you add to the plants! I am trying to find the missing parts of the puzzle. |
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#38 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,818
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Blue, thanks for the reply, that helps me to understand better. I guess if you have disease issues it would be worth experimenting to see if you could come up with a recipe for success.
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#39 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,818
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Beeman,
Now that makes sense if you don't have enough compost. Also, I think you said earlier you had sandy soil...which I think would be the hardest to improve. So is your idea to continue to ammend your garden with compost, etc, and supplement with the ACT until your soil is corrected?
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#40 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 692
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When the soil is up to par, in other words it will grow well, compaction has gone, and a soil test gives me all the answers to good growing conditions. Then I will be able to concentrate more on foliar spraying, possibly less frequently than I do now. |
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#41 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,818
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Could you use a cover crop for winter then spray it in the early spring with your spray you're making to introduce your bacteria into the soil?
I know the giant pumpkin growers are using myco on the cover crop to introduce it to the patch.
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#42 | ||||
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: eastern washington
Posts: 53
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from what i undertand, Lactobacillus is a major part of the lactic acid bacteria group, whom most convert lactose and other sugars to lactic acid, and, are supposed to be common and mostly benign. i suppose, perhaps, the species might depend also on what one uses. for instance, when making the EM/BIM, one would use cucumbers to improve cucumber plants' health and melons for watermelon plants' vigor and peach skins for peach trees and so on. Quote:
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like he stated... Quote:
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much sunshine, bunkie. |
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#43 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 692
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Here is a question? I make cheese during the winter, and part of the process produces large quantities of whey, same as from Yogurt, up to 2 gallons of the stuff. Suppose I made up the LB from it, and applied it at full strength? Would it do any damage, as the suggestions are to use it at 1-20 dilution. If I was to use the suggested strength I would have some 40 gallons of product to use. I could spray the neighborhood. ![]() |
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#44 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Carolina Zone 8a
Posts: 1,205
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What happens when you scoop up a bacteria or fungus that's pathogenic to tomatoes or peppers, nurture it so its numbers explode, and then you spray it on your garden?
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#45 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 692
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Also it's why it's suggested you use 'Finished Thermal Compost' wherever possible, the 'Thermal' treatment destroys any pathogens. |
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