climate change in your area

[mikemansker]

Originally Posted by Worth1

If people think that an electric car is the answer they need to think again.
63% of the electricity in the US is made by fossil fuel.
If your area is powered by fossil fuel you are simply moving the carbon emissions from you to the supplier.
Not in my back yard isn't the answer and this seems to be the problem with most people.
That or ignorance of energy.
Hydro electric dams are not friendly either the concrete production plants put out a huge amount of Co2 to mention but a few of the environmental damages they do.
If the rivers dry up they wont be any good anyway.

The internet puts out a good amount of Co2.

Electric cars will be part of the answer, but we have so many ways to generate electricity from renewable sources, and technology for these methods is constantly advancing. Fossil fuels will eventually become obsolete as the horse and buggy has simply because people will move on from it.

There will always be naysayers who will attempt to cling to outdated methods and products, but there is a better future for us if we decide we want it.

[bower]

I read this article a while ago, which describes what the earth was like at times when the geological record shows the earth had more CO2 in the atmosphere.
https://theconversation.com/hothouse...ed-like-101413


Reversing climate change is not an option, but we do have the option to reduce the severity of change by reducing our CO2 output. Mind you I agree, this is not a simple question and answer, to change fuel is not an overnight proposition and unless the alternative is ready, there's going to be oil making electricity for our home heat and there will be gasoline in the cars too. In my community there's no public transit, and even in the city it's not great. Those are the kind of changes that governments have to work towards to reduce our emissions, which is really beyond the control of the average person.


As for warming, I don't think anyone would object to a longer growing season, more crops suitable, milder winters or any of the positive 'warm' related things that climate change could bring. Warmth is only a problem at the 'deadly heat wave', prolonged drought, wildfire, crop loss level, and that is a regional thing - it ain't happening here just now! But it is obviously becoming a problem in some regions already. And others are having floods, or deadly hurricanes, etc. That is the part of climate change that is going to be a challenge on the present emissions we have already made, no matter what we do or think about that.

[NarnianGarden]

Originally Posted by jtjmartin

I think the only thing I fear more than climate change is man trying to reverse climate change! It seems like the "cure" is often worse than the disease.

Ditto!!

I do take ecological issues, especially man-made, seriously.
But as it has been pointed out, we do not know the extent of natural climate cycles, and how those play out in the current climate crisis.
For now, the narrative is very one-sided.

While I am sorry for polar bears, or any species who is endangered... there are those species who benefit from the changed conditions and learn to adapt accordingly.

[NarnianGarden]

Originally Posted by bower

As for warming, I don't think anyone would object to a longer growing season, more crops suitable, milder winters or any of the positive 'warm' related things that climate change could bring. Warmth is only a problem at the 'deadly heat wave', prolonged drought, wildfire, crop loss level, and that is a regional thing - it ain't happening here just now! But it is obviously becoming a problem in some regions already. And others are having floods, or deadly hurricanes, etc. That is the part of climate change that is going to be a challenge on the present emissions we have already made, no matter what we do or think about that.

The flipside of course is many more insect species extending their territory and living habitat onto more Northern regions... that also applies to diseases, fungi and molds..
Cold winters have kept many insect populations in check, but that may change if the mild winters are here to stay.. NOT that I like cold, quite the opposite!
I think I much rather choose a shorter, but disease-free growing season, instead of an extended one which is a constant combat zone againts the various enemy troops.

[sjamesNorway]

Originally Posted by bower

Warmth is only a problem at the 'deadly heat wave', prolonged drought, wildfire, crop loss level, and that is a regional thing - it ain't happening here just now! But it is obviously becoming a problem in some regions already. And others are having floods, or deadly hurricanes, etc. That is the part of climate change that is going to be a challenge on the present emissions we have already made, no matter what we do or think about that.

If only it was that uncomplicated...


https://www.iucn.org/resources/issue...climate-change


There are untold imbalances in the environment with consequences we are only beginning to understand. It's happening to the whole earth, wherever we may be.



Steve

[jtjmartin]

But we always have government to focus on the really important attempts to change climate:

NYC To Ban Hot Dogs and Processed Meats To Improve Climate

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by jtjmartin

But we always have government to focus on the really important attempts to change climate:

NYC To Ban Hot Dogs and Processed Meats To Improve Climate

With that and the DC ban on plastic straws we are well on our way to stopping climate change.

[bower]

Originally Posted by sjamesNorway

If only it was that uncomplicated...


https://www.iucn.org/resources/issue...climate-change


There are untold imbalances in the environment with consequences we are only beginning to understand. It's happening to the whole earth, wherever we may be.



Steve

You are quite right of course.

How long has the drought pattern been affecting Northern Europe?

[PaulF]

I believe in science but not political science or politicians.

[throwaway]

(This ramble ran long...apologies) - I think emissions, at least from the US and other western countries, are going to meter or decline over the coming 20-30 years; more a gut feeling than anything.

First of all, the LCOE of solar and wind have dropped to remarkably competitive levels. Even offshore wind, historically more expensive, is seeing price drops and has become a focus of research and investment.

Now, studies have shown the grid in parts of the country can handle (hope my memory is right) wind supplying 10%-15% of the load without destabilizing or storing energy. Diversifying the turbines across a wider region and providing transmission capability within the region and between regions probably pushes that above 20%. If we assume storage can push renewable capacity in the grid into the 40% range, that is a remarkable shift generation and emissions. It seems inevitable that decisions around new generation (or replacement generation), regardless what the buyer believes about climate change, will follow rational thinking around price and feasibility.

On the demand side, Prius as we know it today is about 15 years old now, doing great, and defined the category (who would have guessed?). I'm still not sure if Tesla exists as a company a few years from now, but they certainly pushed the world closer to a fully electric consumer vehicle. USPS has a big contract bake off going on to replace its standard delivery vehicle with a new electric model. Tesla's semi will supposedly start production in 2020, Daimler in 2021. Driving semi-automation allows better platooning and 10%+ in fuel savings.

Also hate to say it, but the veggie-based beef replacement stuff is getting good. I'm not a huge steak/burger person, but I wouldn't mind being served an Impossible patty and have heard great things about the Beyond. Even lab grown beef and meats are progressing in quality in cost. Methane emissions from a cow's rear are staggering! Plus if renewables are able to push down $/kWh, maybe shipping container farming becomes more prevalent in response to tougher conditions in standard fields. Bigger concerns are acid buildup in the ocean and declining fish stocks.

I bet that in 2030 and 2040 when we're looking back at 2019, we'll be amazed at how primitive we were in many ways :p. Point is technology is catching up to the point where picking the lower emission option in many cases is going to be cheaper.

For my own edification I'm going to experiment with home aquaponics. Saw an interesting setup where the tank/fish was in the basement and water pumped to the grow beds in the yard. I figure the basement insulates the tank water, moderates root temperatures, and protects the plant temperature through volatile spring weather. Should be pretty efficient on water usage, pump won't draw too much power. I have a fantasy of stocking the tank with plant eating monsters like giant gourami and feeding them the the weeds I pull from my garden/yard (with some giant red claw crayfish to get whatever they miss).

[bower]

throwaway, it's so nice to read your positive outlook. I love the aquaponics idea! Strange as it seems, gourami and crayfish in the basement might be a darn good idea.


@Paul F, I agree, science has to be our guide. And anyone who is still talking about natural cycles and CO2, you should take a look at what NASA has to say. The graph of the atmospheric CO2 in the past 400,000 years is very clear.



https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/


It is still unclear what specific impact this will have in different parts of the world, except that we now know it is warming much faster at the poles and northern latitudes. So I'm finding it really interesting to hear what people are seeing (or not) in other regions including the south. This past decade is really the first for impacts to show up at all, that the scientists can positively understand to be climate change consequences and not just variations in weather.

[sjamesNorway]

Here's an article about the melting permafrost on Svalbard, a marvelous Norwegian arctic archipelago I've visited both winter and summer. It's another symptom of the accelerating deterioration of the environment: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/26/e...ntl/index.html



Here's why melting permafrost is so dangerous: https://phys.org/news/2018-12-permafrost-climate.html


Steve

[SueCT]

I don't need to do a ton of research to know things have already changed. When they wrote the new map for heat zones, I went from 5b to 6a. Just 10-15 years ago, I knew spending 1200.00 on a snowblower was worth while because we had on average at least 6-8 good sized snow storms a year, and doing the math, that snowblower would pay for itself in about 3 years over hiring a plow. It has been several years since I have had to even take it out more than 2 or 3 times per year. Spring seems to have shortened, and most years we go from winter to full on Summer pretty quickly. We are way overdue for a true Spring, which I hope we get this year. Violent storms and flooding, as well as long periods of drought are more frequent across the country. These are just the changes I personally have noticed.

Most people don't seem to need a lot of convincing to use environmentally friendly options. Natural Gas and oil can be expensive, so can electric. Not only do I see more hybrids on the road as prices come down, but more and more houses have solar panels, even on the east coast. More farms have wind power. The cloud of smog over Los Angelos that I remember from pictures in my youth, has disapated, as has the smog around Hartford, the closest city to me. New industries have emerged and jobs created in sales, manufacturing and installation of these items.

There are always going to be people who hate change, want the world to stay the same, and stay familiar and comforting to them. But the world is moving on as it always does, and I don't think anyone can really stop it. Personally I love knowing that we are able to do something as big as removing this cloud of smog over LA and cleaning up some of our waterways. It shows that we are not helpless and we really can make a difference. We are not only making a difference for future generations, we are seeing improviments right now, in our own lungs and that of our children.

https://news.usc.edu/76761/las-envir...ealthier-kids/

[Worth1]

I am not against change and I am not against electric cars.

But there are things that some people dont seem to realize or care about.
This doesn't help when you start checking facts compared to what some people say.
Things like the US is the biggest emitter of Co2 on earth.
This simply isn't true.
Per capita we are up there but so is Arabia.
Per capita we are around twice as high as China.
But that is because most of the country is still underdeveloped.
China has a higher total output than any place in the world.
Why is because the rest of the world buys there products due to cheap labor and lax environmental laws.
We are talking about a global problem here not a local one.
So even if our back yard looks pretty and green it isn't so in other parts of the world.
That oil, gas and coal in the ground will be used by countries like China whether we like it or not.
They are already moving into countries in Africa and exploiting them and their people.

So moving a manufacturing plant from the US to a developing country that puts out twice as much or more pollution than it did in the US is not a step forward but two or more steps backwards.

[Worth1]

To get back on subject being in a warmer climate due to this change is not as it may seem.
Case in point are some of my plants.
My pomegranate put out leaves early this year, way early only to be frozen back later.
If it would nave gotten colder it would have killed it back to the ground due to the sap freezing and busting the trunks.