Green Doctors skin colour

[goodwin]

My seed was from Sandhill '09, but after we discovered the change in August, I decided to grow it out another year to see how the trait transferred. Some interesting genetics in the parents.
Obviously, this was a single mutation, and I agree the name is a good one.

[Marko]

Originally Posted by velikipop

Jeff,

Mine, grown from your seed, are amber, like the ones from your 08 picture.

Alex

Originally Posted by goodwin

Thought I might ask what folks are getting this year. It looks like the seed I saved from fruit with the clear epidermis is breeding true. They have wonderful flavor as well and I believe people are catching on to GWR tomatoes.

Lee

Mine grown from Alex's seed have clear epidermis. I expected amber blush and waited and waited ... till they start to drop, then I noticed clear epidermis.
Very tasty tomato, I gave a lot of them to friends and coworkers and everybody likes it.

[shelleybean]

I tasted Green Doctors when Marth/Gardenmama asked me to take it to Tomatopalooza for her in 2007. YUM! My seed is from Victory and I will finally get around to growing it myself next season. Looking forward to it!

[carolyn137]

I sure as heck am not going to go through the whole history of how Galina's saved seeds got to be Green Doctors, then Green Doctors Frosted, with several steps in between, but I thought it might be good to summarize who has what.

Initially last year three people got the clear epidermis mutation that led to what is now called Green Doctors Frosted. Those were Jeff Casey, Neil Lockhart and Lee G who posted above. Seed sources for those three were either Sandhill or my seeds, which weren't mine but were sent to me by Amy Goldman in whose garden the Variety Dr. Carolyn mutated to the GWRipe she named Green Doctors.

Adam Gleckler called me over the weekend and he was walking thru the tomatoes updating me on this one and that one via his cell phone, and then said that he planted out I think he said 30-40 plants of Green Doctors, seed from me. Now I can't remember if these were the seeds Amy sent me or recent ones that Glenn at Sandhill had sent me after I asked him for some.

Adam said that about 20% of the GD plants were giving clear epidermis Green Doctors Frosted.

So clearly, at least to me, this spontaneous mutation of GD to GDF wasn't seen until recently b'c most folks only put out a few plants and since spontaeous mutations are random, permanent and heritable, it could happen to anyone just growing a single plant.

And I'm glad that several of you are getting GDF and can then offer the seed to others via the Seed Exchange Forum b'c I have no more seeds of GDF.

Jeff Casey who lists it at his seed site, and Neil Lockhart who listed it in the 2010 Yearbook were so gracious in sending me the GDF seeds that I distributed in my seed offer this past Spring, but all those seeds were sent out; I didn't even keep any for myself.

If you wish to support Jeff's efforts here's the link, with many other wonferdul varieties;

http://members.shaw.ca/jwlcasey/Case...toes/Home.html

And SSE members can get it from Neil's SSE listing.

And I'm sure Adam will have it listed in the Fall based on his observations he realted to me and her's his website, also with some other great varieties:

http://www.glecklerseedmen.com/Cherr...page80686.aspx

and I'm pretty sure Sandhill will also list it in the very late Fall:

http://www.sandhillpreservation.com/

And possibly Marianne Jones at ;

http://www.mariseeds.com/

So why am I giving all the above links, and there could be more places listing GDF that I don't know about. it's b'c I feel very strongly about folks supporting the efforts of those small family businesses that help us so much in terms of offering all the varieties that they do and the hard work and dedication that goes into doing that.

I know many here are addicted to getting seeds via trades, but I'd like to encourage everyone to at least buy some of their seeds to help support others.

And I'm talking generally now, not just about places where GDF might be listed.

Thanks.

[dokutaaguriin]

HI,
JUst a quick update about GD and GDF in my garden this year. Green Doctors is breeding true- yellow epidermis, as well as Green Doctors Frosted- clear epidermis.
Taste- the trio of Dr. Carolyn, Green Doctors and Green Doctors Frosted simply OUTSTANDING! (Now, if I can only get my hands on the small cherry Dr. Carolyn Pink to complete the family!)
I am glad to hear that everyone is in agreement on the name GDF as who needs more confusion in the heirloom tomato world!
Here is a pic of the trio:


Jeff

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by dokutaaguriin

HI,
JUst a quick update about GD and GDF in my garden this year. Green Doctors is breeding true- yellow epidermis, as well as Green Doctors Frosted- clear epidermis.
Taste- the trio of Dr. Carolyn, Green Doctors and Green Doctors Frosted simply OUTSTANDING! (Now, if I can only get my hands on the small cherry Dr. Carolyn Pink to complete the family!)
I am glad to hear that everyone is in agreement on the name GDF as who needs more confusion in the heirloom tomato world!
Here is a pic of the trio:


Jeff

Jeff, I'm delighted to see and hear that GD and GD Frosted are staying true.

At another message site this is being discussed and maintained that GD is showing genetic instability that led to the clear epidermis change. There's no way that I want to go into all of this but one person called my suggestion of a spontaneous mutation garbage, and well, we'll see.

The major point being made is that if Adam is seeing so many plants of GDF it couldn't be JUST a simple mutation b/c the mutation rate is too high.

And I agree that this particular mutation rate is higher than I've seen with simple red to pink and reverse kinds of epidermis mutations.

No one reported the clear epidermis GD until last summer, as far as I know, but then I only know if someone talks about it. The seeds Amy sent me for GD were from 2006 and she first listed it in the Yearbook in 2007 I and most folks usually put out only one or two plants of each variety.

And since spontaneous single mutations are random, there would be a greater probablility of someone putting out many plants to see that change and since those eipdermis mutations are random is could also happen for the person putting out 1 or 2 plants.

Time will tell on genetic stability but I like your results.

About Dr. Carolyn Pink. I know Darrel Jones likes it a lot but I don't know if he's referring to the smaller or larger version. Maybe I was wrong in saying that I preferred the taste of the smaller fruited one which was about the same size as the Dr. Carolyn fruits.

All to say that I have LOTS of seed of Dr. Carolyn Pink and would be glad to send you a few hundred, LOL, and I'm sure that you'd get both the small and large verisions and then you can decide for yourself which you prefer. The seeds are from 2004 I think but should germinate Ok around the 50% mark or better I would imagine.

Not a general offer folks, sorry.

Here's an evil thought.

When I first planted out those saved seeds from Galina I don't know why I planted out several plants, but I did. I got red, salmon, pink, ivory and yellow fruited plants, all cherries and no PL from Galina.

I didn't think that much of the taste of any of them except for the ivory one and I still have those original seeds somewhere in a vial that I labelled Ivory Mutant. Better that Steve Draper named it Dr. Carolyn.

But what if I'd saved seeds from all the different colors and then there would be:

Dr. Carolyn
Dr. Carolyn Pink ( and these sent to me by another SSE member)
Dr. Carolyn Pink ( original seeds)
Dr. Carolyn Salmon
Dr. Carolyn Yellow
Dr. Carolyn Red

Now I don't site up night thinking about this but it does amuse me and also would give fodder to the mill to anyone trying to figure out what the heck happened with those first F2 saved seeds of Galina b'c I don't know, and nor does Steve Draper who at the same time was also having instability problems with Galina, which had been newly offered as brought back by Steve Mc Dorman from Siberia.

Just think of the tomato reunion we could have if we had all of the above, add in Galina and then add in the red and pink fruited ones I got when first growing out Dr. Carolyn itself but that calmed down quickly and Dr. Carolyn, the tomato variety, has been genetically stable for many years, and still is, except for the appearance of GD and the genetics of that were explained to me by Keith Mueller as being plausible.

I would like at the reunion:

BBQ ed chicken ( Cornell recipe for basting sauce)
Baked beans
Tossed Salad
Corn on the cob
Potato Salad made with eggs, pickle juice and a tad of mustard

Watermelon for dessert and something lethally dark chocolate.

[dice]

It sounds like the original Galina's that produced all of those
different colored F2s was crossed with an RL F1 hybrid, something
that had a variety of different colored ancestors for parent and
grandparent cultivars.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by dice

It sounds like the original Galina's that produced all of those
different colored F2s was crossed with an RL F1 hybrid, something
that had a variety of different colored ancestors for parent and
grandparent cultivars.

The original Galina was brought back from Siberia by Bill McDorman in the early 90's. Craig L and I bought an split packs of all the ones that he offered, and others bought them as well.

Bill grew no F1', only OP's.

I don't remember Craig saying he got anything other than what was expected from Galina.

The year I grew Galina for the first time it was as it should be, PL with gold cherries, and it was the saved seeds from that Galina that gave the plants that were all RL and each plant had a different colored cherry.

And that year I grew no F1's . Actually I never grew an F1 anything until I was asked to allow some Cornell students to do a disease project with my plants and for that I grew Celebrity F1 and Big Boy F1.

Galina's Yellow, which was the name given to it was released by Bill Mc Dorman in 1991 and I grew no F1 hybrids until sometime in the mid=90's for the project mentioned above.

Quite independently Steve Draper, then living in Utah, had bought seeds for Galina and he too was getting some genetic instability.

I never listed Galina in the SSE YEarbook after seeing what I got from my saved seeds from Galina b'c I didn't know what the heck was going on.

As I've said before and still do, I have no idea why Steve and I got, and perhaps others I didn't know about, such instability in terms of a plausible genetic mechanism.

I'm just glad it did happen b'c it's led to some interesting progeny.