Those that grow for sauce making in northern zones - Page 3

montanamato · January 16, 2010

My computer is arguing with me, so I will continue here...

For flavor I would rate

1-Matt d'Imperio
2-Mama Leone
3-Franchi Red Pear
4-Canestrin #1
5-Ludmilla's Red Plum

I value space and time, so I am in the minority, and really hate to can slicers...I have found many of the less popular fresh eating paste/plums turn into superior sauces...I have canned anything in a bad year, but it takes a lot more effort to sqeeze/seed the others...

It will also depend on how much sauce you use...We will use 3-4 quarts a week if we have them...

Jeanne

RiverRat · January 16, 2010

Jeanne, have you ever tried Cornue des Andes, aka Andine Cornue? That's a really lovely paste tomato; very flavorful with thick walls and almost no seeds.

We don't use that much sauce in a week but it's nice to have for linguine or lasagne. Our output is really variable, too!

**carolyn137** · January 16, 2010

I'm with River Rat in using the best tasting ones you grow, not necessarily paste tomatoes, and cooking the mixture down to the cessarily thickness.

My past experience is that most so called paste tomatoes just don't have the great tastes that the non-paste, meaty, low seed regular varieties have.

If prodded I do think the following are good paste varieties:

Heidi
Mama Leone
Opalka
Sarnowski Polish Plum
Martino's Roma

Another group of varieties are the hearts which are very meaty, have low seed counts and great tastes. There's several thread here on hearts but I could name some if someone was interested.

I've grown the San Marzanos, I've grown a couple of Costolutos, I've grown Amish Paste which I don't see as a paste tomato since it's too juicy, I've grown Lillian's Red Kansas Paste which definitiely is not a paste, and so it goes.

So do consider varieties other than paste tomatoes for sauce as River Rat posted above. I know you'll have a much more exciting better tasting sauce.

If you get bored grow some large so called whites and make a white sauce. Just stunning over white pasta, NOT. My mother was of Swedish heritage and she creamed everything so I was used to sitting down to a dinner of mashed potatoes, cauliflower, maybe creamed peas, well you get my drift.

The whole bit about paste tomatoes came about when so many folks from Italy first came to the US as immigrants from about 1880 to about 1920 and they brought with them seeds for what they grew at home. But few who knew some of those varieties at home would recognize them today, witness the Costolutos and Marzanos, for instance, having changed through the years as some Italians say. It's the same situation with the French variety Marmande which the French don't think is the same as the Marmande that's grown today from the comments I've seen. And the whole bit with staking tomatoes also came from Italy as well, and was necessary there, not just b'c they grew grapes kind of that way, but also b'c land was scarce.

montanamato · January 16, 2010

river rat...I have considered andine cornue, but figured in an average year I woud get few ripe tomatoes...Opalka is a little too late for my climate too...

I did omit Sicilian plum, which is probably one of my favorites for fresh eating and cooking....

I have been considering Chinese and I need to try it again if it does well in Wyoming....

Jeanne

RiverRat · January 16, 2010

Interesting historical take on tomato culture, Carolyn! Yes, I stake my tomatoes because my Italian-American FIL did it that way, and I can just guess where he learned it from. But my bamboo tripod staking method is something I saw repeatedly in the South of France in the small, intensively-planted gardens typical there. My Marmande seed packet came from France, too, by the way. It's funny that St. Pierre and other French varieties do beautifully in my soil, but not Marmande! On the other hand, Brandywine has never done a thing for me either.

I can't imagine what a white tomato sauce would look like on linguine!

Do you find yourself liking a lot of color on your plate as a reaction to that upbringing?

Leslie

RiverRat · January 16, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by montanamato

river rat...I have considered andine cornue, but figured in an average year I woud get few ripe tomatoes...Opalka is a little too late for my climate too...

I did omit Sicilian plum, which is probably one of my favorites for fresh eating and cooking....

I have been considering Chinese and I need to try it again if it does well in Wyoming....

Jeanne

How long is your season, and could you supplement or extend by growing inside for a bit? Cornue des Andes is a nice tomato!

icelord · January 16, 2010

It is NEVER GRAVY it is sauce!! Being a Sicillian and having realatives in NewYork and sicily I am here to tell you that is how fights start. Hehe

Icelord

montanamato · January 16, 2010

My season can be 90 days but the evenings are only warm for a few weeks, and by early august nights can be back in the high 40's and low 50's...Hot , windy days of 90-105 give the plants a good shock from night to day...Some summers are more pleasant than others and occasionally we get warmer nights for extended periods....Historically in my garden the larger plums like Opalka, set sparsely and ripen too late...I just keep trying different ones, as sometimes a variety will surprise me and do well...Of course I plant a handful of shorter season pastes for insurance too...I start my seedlings in early March and put outside about the end of May, to the middle of June...

Jeanne

RiverRat · January 16, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by icelord

It is NEVER GRAVY it is sauce!! Being a Sicillian and having realatives in NewYork and sicily I am here to tell you that is how fights start. Hehe

Icelord

I figure it's their dish, so whatever they want to call it is fine by me. My forbearers were Hungarian and Russian...

Montana, I don't see why you can't grow Cornue des Andes where you are, if that's what your season is like. They really don't mind cool nights once they're established; mine did fine in the fall with that sort of range.

Leslie

brokenbar · January 16, 2010

I wanted to mention that when making your own sauce, the amount you end up with to can will be 1/2 of the total processed raw tomato sauce you start out with. When you simmer it and reduce it, it won't be nearly as much finished product as one would assume. I also always figure that I will lose around a sixth of the total amount when processing and removing the skins and seeds. An interesting aside...if you freeze the raw sauce almost all of the water will rise to the service for easy removal and less simmering. Just like canned tomato juice...always separates.

**Mischka** · January 16, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRat

I can't imagine what a white tomato sauce would look like on linguine!

Do you find yourself liking a lot of color on your plate as a reaction to that upbringing?

Leslie

In 2002, I made a huge batch of tomato sauce (gravy

) strictly from Lillian's Yellow Heirloom and Burracker's Favorite varieties... nobody would even taste in my family, never mind eat it over macaroni.

I ended up having to mix a jar of customary red with a jar of yellow each time I served it, which disguised the color sufficiently enough for their eyes and appetites.

mtbigfish · January 16, 2010

Mischka
What is tomato gravy? just tomato sauce?
Dennis

icelord · January 16, 2010

If you want to be accuarte about tomato names,also be accurate about what they produce, there are no meat juices in a tomato therefore it can not be called {GRAVY} It is SAUCE that is how people get misinformed about things using incorrect names or spellings,Mishka I would like the family to come to your place when you serve Gravy, HeHeHe Oh yeah, what size shoe do you wear? Lol

Icelord

darwinslair · January 16, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenbar

I wanted to mention that when making your own sauce, the amount you end up with to can will be 1/2 of the total processed raw tomato sauce you start out with. When you simmer it and reduce it, it won't be nearly as much finished product as one would assume. I also always figure that I will lose around a sixth of the total amount when processing and removing the skins and seeds. An interesting aside...if you freeze the raw sauce almost all of the water will rise to the service for easy removal and less simmering. Just like canned tomato juice...always separates.

I never seed out my tomatoes, except when I am saving seeds. I also try to use mostly thin skinned tomatoes I can just pop in the blender for a few moments to evaporate the skins instead of physically skinning them. Both of those things have a lot of the flavors that go into the full flavor of the tomato.

And as far as moisture, I find it really is vastly different by tomato type. Roman Candle makes a sauce thick enough to stand a spoon up in without cooking down at all (just blend them for a few moments) while Amish Paste is going to need to be cooked down by more than half. Laurer is about half, Juliet is about a third, etc etc etc.

gotta just go to the texture you desire.

Tom

piegirl · January 17, 2010

I tried Martino's Roma two years ago and now it is a staple in my garden for sauce - last year I had 8-9 but hope to have 12 this year. The sauce is divine, fresh - take it or leave it. I just remove the cores and slice in half or thirds, skins, seeds and all. After awhile, the aroma comes up and the tomatoes just seem to melt into sauce. I run it through a food mill and end up with only a small amount of pulp. Freeze. Now I can't decide whether to use as a sauce or just drink it! Spices etc. are added when I decide what to make. The people I work with said "why" when a can of sauce is only 33-45 cents but they also thought all tomatoes were pretty much the same.

Since it was November I had no samples and sure wasn't going to share my sauce !! piegirl

January 16, 2010	#33
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I'm with River Rat in using the best tasting ones you grow, not necessarily paste tomatoes, and cooking the mixture down to the cessarily thickness. My past experience is that most so called paste tomatoes just don't have the great tastes that the non-paste, meaty, low seed regular varieties have. If prodded I do think the following are good paste varieties: Heidi Mama Leone Opalka Sarnowski Polish Plum Martino's Roma Another group of varieties are the hearts which are very meaty, have low seed counts and great tastes. There's several thread here on hearts but I could name some if someone was interested. I've grown the San Marzanos, I've grown a couple of Costolutos, I've grown Amish Paste which I don't see as a paste tomato since it's too juicy, I've grown Lillian's Red Kansas Paste which definitiely is not a paste, and so it goes. So do consider varieties other than paste tomatoes for sauce as River Rat posted above. I know you'll have a much more exciting better tasting sauce. If you get bored grow some large so called whites and make a white sauce. Just stunning over white pasta, NOT. My mother was of Swedish heritage and she creamed everything so I was used to sitting down to a dinner of mashed potatoes, cauliflower, maybe creamed peas, well you get my drift. The whole bit about paste tomatoes came about when so many folks from Italy first came to the US as immigrants from about 1880 to about 1920 and they brought with them seeds for what they grew at home. But few who knew some of those varieties at home would recognize them today, witness the Costolutos and Marzanos, for instance, having changed through the years as some Italians say. It's the same situation with the French variety Marmande which the French don't think is the same as the Marmande that's grown today from the comments I've seen. And the whole bit with staking tomatoes also came from Italy as well, and was necessary there, not just b'c they grew grapes kind of that way, but also b'c land was scarce. __________________ Carolyn

January 16, 2010	#40
brokenbar Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: South Of The Border Posts: 1,169	I wanted to mention that when making your own sauce, the amount you end up with to can will be 1/2 of the total processed raw tomato sauce you start out with. When you simmer it and reduce it, it won't be nearly as much finished product as one would assume. I also always figure that I will lose around a sixth of the total amount when processing and removing the skins and seeds. An interesting aside...if you freeze the raw sauce almost all of the water will rise to the service for easy removal and less simmering. Just like canned tomato juice...always separates. __________________ "If I'm not getting dirty, I'm not having a good time."

January 16, 2010	#43
icelord Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: 23463 copemish Mi 49625 Posts: 180	If you want to be accuarte about tomato names,also be accurate about what they produce, there are no meat juices in a tomato therefore it can not be called {GRAVY} It is SAUCE that is how people get misinformed about things using incorrect names or spellings,Mishka I would like the family to come to your place when you serve Gravy, HeHeHe Oh yeah, what size shoe do you wear? Lol Icelord Last edited by icelord; January 16, 2010 at 08:06 PM. Reason: Forgot something

January 16, 2010	#31
montanamato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montana Posts: 1,038	My computer is arguing with me, so I will continue here... For flavor I would rate 1-Matt d'Imperio 2-Mama Leone 3-Franchi Red Pear 4-Canestrin #1 5-Ludmilla's Red Plum I value space and time, so I am in the minority, and really hate to can slicers...I have found many of the less popular fresh eating paste/plums turn into superior sauces...I have canned anything in a bad year, but it takes a lot more effort to sqeeze/seed the others... It will also depend on how much sauce you use...We will use 3-4 quarts a week if we have them... Jeanne

January 16, 2010	#32
RiverRat Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 78	Jeanne, have you ever tried Cornue des Andes, aka Andine Cornue? That's a really lovely paste tomato; very flavorful with thick walls and almost no seeds. We don't use that much sauce in a week but it's nice to have for linguine or lasagne. Our output is really variable, too!

January 16, 2010	#42
mtbigfish Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Chillicothe Ohio - left Calif July 2010 Posts: 451	Mischka What is tomato gravy? just tomato sauce? Dennis

January 17, 2010	#45
piegirl Tomatovillian™ Honoree Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 791	I tried Martino's Roma two years ago and now it is a staple in my garden for sauce - last year I had 8-9 but hope to have 12 this year. The sauce is divine, fresh - take it or leave it. I just remove the cores and slice in half or thirds, skins, seeds and all. After awhile, the aroma comes up and the tomatoes just seem to melt into sauce. I run it through a food mill and end up with only a small amount of pulp. Freeze. Now I can't decide whether to use as a sauce or just drink it! Spices etc. are added when I decide what to make. The people I work with said "why" when a can of sauce is only 33-45 cents but they also thought all tomatoes were pretty much the same. Since it was November I had no samples and sure wasn't going to share my sauce !! piegirl