Seed Fermentation Methods

[Stepheninky]

Found this on the USDA site - for the most part the same thing but with one exception:

Place remaining seeds in a mesh bag and dip into a 20% Bleach solution (1 cup Bleach to 4 cups water) for just long enough to make sure solution has contact with all seeds (this will protect against Tobacco Mosaic Virus). After dipping the seeds, place on a screen to dry. You may want to rub the seeds while they are drying to avoid clumping and to remove the tiny hairs found on the seeds.

I had personally never seen anywhere else where bleach was mentioned.

Tomatoes can be processed manually or mechanically. I use a Millett's Wet Vegetable Seed Separator to clean tomatoes but, this process can be done simply by cutting the tomato through the middle and squeezing out the seeds into a container (See picture to right). After all the seeds from one variety are in the container, add as much water as you have seeds and ferment for 1 - 3 days (stirring twice a day). During this time you will notice a pungent odor coming from your bucket and a thick mold layering the top of the mixture. Once this mold completely covers the top, the seeds should be ready. The viable seeds will sink to the bottom and you can discard the rest of the mix. If you pour off the top mold and some water, you will notice the viable seeds left in the bottom. After you pour off the mold, refill the bucket with clean water, let settle and pour off remaining debris. Continue to do this until all the debris is gone. Place remaining seeds in a mesh bag and dip into a 20% Bleach solution (1 cup Bleach to 4 cups water) for just long enough to make sure solution has contact with all seeds (this will protect against Tobacco Mosaic Virus). After dipping the seeds, place on a screen to dry. You may want to rub the seeds while they are drying to avoid clumping and to remove the tiny hairs found on the seeds.

[ubergoober]

Originally Posted by tam91

Maggots. Scream. Not many things make me scream, but... maggots...

Could one prevent the maggot invasion by covering a jar with cheesecloth for example?

Carolyn, you have a little killer instinct in you, I know ya do I bet no one complained about the maggots - they just thought it was the seed that didn't germinate haha.

I am with Tam on the maggots. Not much grosses me out but those do! lol

[feldon30]

Just here to offer an alternative to maggots, funny smells, and the joys of fermentation...
http://www.settfest.com/2009/01/saving-seeds/

[tam91]

Interesting - certainly sounds easy.

Brings to mind a different question - does the postal service not like tomato seeds being mailed?

[Gobig_or_Gohome_toms]

Originally Posted by tam91

Maggots. Scream. Not many things make me scream, but... maggots...

Could one prevent the maggot invasion by covering a jar with cheesecloth for example?

Carolyn, you have a little killer instinct in you, I know ya do I bet no one complained about the maggots - they just thought it was the seed that didn't germinate haha.

I cover the jar with a paper towel and rubber band and add a few tiny holes to the paper towel. Never had maggots and still get good fermentation.

Craig

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by tam91

Maggots. Scream. Not many things make me scream, but... maggots...

Could one prevent the maggot invasion by covering a jar with cheesecloth for example?

Carolyn, you have a little killer instinct in you, I know ya do I bet no one complained about the maggots - they just thought it was the seed that didn't germinate haha.

Cheesecloth can help prevent the wasps and hornets from drowning themselves but if the flies that are landing and laying the eggs are small it won't.

No, no one complained about the maggotts b'c as I said above I sort them out when I've got the seeds for a variety in front of me on the table.

Are maggots commonly seen? Not all the time in my experience but they can be there and I have received seeds from others that had their wee dead bodies included as an extra.

Also, I think that the mthod one chooses to process tomato seed is quite dependent on the number of plants/varieties grown in a specific season.

For all the years I was growing upwards of 150-200 varieties each season fermentation worked best for me and besides, I prefer it b'c it's natural, which may be relevant for others.

And since I was growing so much to produce enough seed for my SSE listings at the time, which were in the hundreds, I had to do successive fermentations for the same variety as the fruits ripened.

I could fit 8 pint containers in a standard nursery tray and it wouldn't be unusual for me to have 8-10 of those trays going at the same time. As soon as the fermentations were complete in some trays I'd complete the process as I described in my book, which someone mentioned above, and then set up yet more trays.

The last summer I did my normal huge growouts , which was in 2004, my brother had to help me harvest the fruits b'c by that time the hips were really bad and Charlie, my farmer friend whose one field I was using said he'd keep the front end loader at the ready if I got tangled up in the vines and fell.

One trip back home with those fruits, Charlie was about 30 miles away from where I lived, I remember that it was a great year for fruit production and I had at least a half a bushel of Red Penna, Chapman and Wes each and doing just those alone took one heck of a lot of pints never mind all the other varieties that needed seed processing.

When I look back to the pre-1999 years when I was still working I wonder where I got the time to do everything that I did. Yes, I had summers off to deal with my orchard, strawberries, blueberries, herb gardens and many perennial beds and borders as well as all the vegetables and fruits, but school started in early September and there were still lots and lots of seeds to process.

I used to keep my tomato clothes in the car with me and on the way home would stop at the old farm, change clothes and work well in the evening setting up fermentations. The front porch was huge and did have an over head light, so that helped.

And if you could have seen the upstairs of the farmhouse you would have laughed. Only my mother lived there at the time so all the furniture and beds in all of the upstairs bedrooms were festooned with seeds drying on paper plates.

OK, memory time is over for today.

[tam91]

What a nice story. Quite an image - seeds everywhere.

Re. the maggots - I understand you removed them. My comment was an attempt at a joke (not a very good one apparently - consider me crushed).

[geoff1]

This is almost exactly how I do it. Only difference is that I use sugar soap.
Whole wet procedure takes 15 minutes. and then just leave on top of the TV decoder till they dry.

[dice]

[postal service and seed mailing]
Postal services in some countries (customs, actually) do not
like seeds being mailed, because they have quarantines.
Australia is one example (potato spindle tuber viroid paranoia),
Israel is another (big local tomato industry; they do not
want people importing seed-borne diseases from outside
the country).

Mailing them here in the US, we have had problems with
modern postal equipment crushing the seeds, making them
non-viable. There were a few long threads on this and some
tests last year and early this year. Not every post office or
mail sorting facility has the equipment that will do this, but
one is advised to pad the seeds that one sends to be sure
that they do not get crushed in transit. I find that 1/8-1/4 inch
foam padding works, others use bubble envelopes, wraps with
layers of paper towels, etc.

(There is a $.20 US postage surcharge for envelopes over
1/4-inch thick.)

[tam91]

Thanks

I discovered the $.20 charge when my family's orthodontist's wife sent me the Kuri Squash seeds - which I had to pick up at the post office, postage due.

Happily though, they seem fine - at least all the ones I planted germinated.

[Love2Troll]

I'm a jar shaker and do my ferments in tightly capped pint canning jars using kefir whey or sourdough starter to get the fermentation going quickly and prevent any mold from forming. 80° is my preferred temperature. Is mold beneficial in any way? And I dry the rinsed seeds in my dehydrator set at 85° for 1 day before storing in plastic bags with silica gel packets. The gel coat ferments & dissolves & the seeds fall to the bottom of the jar. I add water to the jar, shake it good, let the seeds settle to the bottom again, siphon off the top with a turkey baster, add more water and repeat until get a mix of mostly clean seeds and water. Then onto a paper towel atop a dehydrator tray.

Don't save enough seeds of a variety to require a quart jar, but have fermented saurkraut in qt jars just fine so larger amts will work.

[Love2Troll]

Mailing them here in the US, we have had problems with
modern postal equipment crushing the seeds, making them
non-viable

I've mailed pepper seeds to I think at least 13 countries over the years & the way to escape customs and the crushing problem is to use small square card envelopes. Square envelopes don't go though USPS automated sorting (crushing) whatevertheyarecalledthingys. Extra postage required. If under an ounce custom forms aren't required.

It's been a couple years since I was active in sharing seeds & I hope this info is still correct.

[Love2Troll]

Goodness, what a thread killer I turned out to be. Nevertheless, here I go again...

These are Cherokee Purple fermentations from tomatoes I grew this year using old seeds given to me by a member here maybe 8 years ago. I was so happy to see them germinate!

Squeezed the pulp out of a couple ripe tomatoes into my blender with some distilled water and mashed them up good. Added a couple spoonfulls of recently activated sourdough starter and then put everything in a clean pint canning jar. Screwed the cap down rather tightly and put in a warm (80°) place out of direct sunlight.

24 hours:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqHN_hvtgdU

47 hours:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbKxbnR2Urs

I'll rinse the seeds and put in the dehydrator tomorrow.

[Idahowoman]

Love2troll,
Interesting videos.
I was waiting for the jar to blow up.

[Love2Troll]

Originally Posted by Idahowoman

Love2troll,
Interesting videos.
I was waiting for the jar to blow up.

LOL! I have purposely tried to get pint jars to blow up while fermenting various concoctions and have never succeeded. And there is no good reason to screw down the lids as tightly as I do for fermenting tomato seeds. An active sourdough or kefir starter will immediately start producing carbon dioxide gas and provide positive pressure inside the jar making conditions unsuitable for mold growth. The pH will rather quickly be lowered to below the level that botulism needs to reproduce.