"Illegal" propagation

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by tommytonk

Isnt it true that monsanto has patented the genes of wild tomatoes?

tommy

Do you mean "wild" varieties or genes from the other species of tomatoes of which there are about 15 different species, to date.

One can't patent anything unless an improvement has been shown from the original. And since we still don't know how tomatoes got to Mexico and in what form, there;'s no way to know what the original of a wild one would be in the highlands of Chile or Peru/

And since Monsanto is not in the tomato breeding business I can't see them patenting anything re tomatoes.

Yes, they bought out Seminis of which one subsidiary is Petoseed which does develop tomato varieties, but the genes that have been used in breeding purposes of disease tolerance, high solids, uniform ripening gene and so much more are available to any hybridizer who can document their experience and get those varieties via The Rick Center at UC Davis in CA.

And they bought Seminis which is composed of several companies as an investment since the price was right. So many folks expected them to force Petoseed to breed some GMO's. but that hasn't happened in all the years that M has owned S, and I don't think will ever happen.

There are several folks here at Tville who have been using some of those accessions in their own breeding projects, same at other message sites, and quite a few are also listed in the SSE YEarbooks in the other species section.

So I, at least, can't see Monsanto trying to patent any so called "wild" tomato genes or any of the species, as far as that goes, since they're all widely available if you know where to go to get them.

[tommytonk]

Hi Carolyn,

This is what I was referring to:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...&RS=TTL/tomato

tommy

[travis]

Too long and excruciatingly boring to read. But what I take out of it is the research involved crossing a Botrytis-susceptible domestic tomato plant (of Lycopersicon esculentum) with a Botrytis-resistant wild tomato plant (of Lycopersicon hirsutum), and then selected from among the prodigy for Botrytis-resistant offspring. "(8. The method according to claim 4, wherein said transfer of nucleic acid comprises the steps of: crossing said Botrytis-resistant donor tomato plant with a Botrytis-susceptible recipient tomato plant to produce offspring plants; and selecting a plant that comprises in its genome said at least one QTL.)"



The same thing is done many times in many breeding programs (not just by Monsanto companies) since all the modern disease resistances are taken from wild tomato species and bred into domestic lines. This type of breeding represents a valuable improvement of domestic tomato lines, and therefore the breeders feel warranted in patenting the results to protect their investment.

I have to agree with jmhewitts comments about the "Fourth Of July" variety. It was easily the earliest and most productive tomato in my garden this year. The plant itself was very robust producing suckers and side shoots rapidly as it grew. I had to keep removing excess growth to prevent the plant from taking over the bed. Every new growth quickly produced another truss loaded with flawless, golf ball sized fruit. The earliest fruit (55 days) were a little flat in taste. After a week of production, the taste improved so much I would rank them with any red tomato in my garden. The tomatoes on the trusses ripen individually. I wish they would produce and ripen at the same time on the truss, but it doesn't really matter.

Here is a photo of one of my Fourth Of July plants. This photo was taken early in the season and low on the plant. You can see some fruit near the bottom beginning to ripen. You can't see them, but higher on the same plant; the fruit was much more abundant but buried deep in the foliage.



A friend on another forum grew Fourth Of July for a few years with great results and then switched to a variety named "Sweet Cluster". He claims Sweet Cluster has all of the attributes of Fourth of July plus it is even more productive with better tasting tomatoes. I find it hard to believe, but I suppose I will have to try "Sweet Cluster" next year along with the Mountain Magic Carolyn mentioned. I wanted to try Mountain Magic this year but didn't get seed ordered in time to grow them.

Ted

[carolyn137]

and therefore the breeders feel warranted in patenting the results to protect their investment.

******

Exactly the same point I made in the other thread started on this issue. it would be the primary right of the breeders to apply for the patent, not Monsanto.

I GOogled Monsanto N. V. as it appears in the patent application and was very surprised to see what areas they are in from medicines to seeds to whatever, and how many companies they SUPPORT in terms of research which is what I'm sure they were doing in this particular issue; giving research monies.

Copyright and patent laws confuse me. Until the recent past, products like genetic materials which occur spontaneously in nature were not eligible for copyrights or patents. When the genomes of living organisms were decoded a few years ago, science became able to identify which genetic components contributed certain traits to an organism. At the point of discovery, patents were extended to those components though they were only discovered, not created.

To add to the confusion, it depends on international laws, federal laws, and local laws to regulate and enforce the granting of copyrights and patents. Fortunately or unfortunately, most countries do not automatically recognize those grants of ALL other countries. Many countries do have treaties which regulate their enforcement, but even with those treaties, many countries like China and India simply ignore them if it is in the financial best interest of the country.

Ultimately, it is the threat of civil action which most commonly enforces the laws and that simply boils down to who is willing to use and can afford to employ the most lawyers.

Since it was a political decision to allow the restrictions to apply to naturally occurring genetic materials, I think they should be ignored with the knowledge that such action can result in negative civil actions and judgments.

Genetically modified organisms should be patentable and protected.

Ted

[jmhewitt]

Ted: looked for Sweet Cluster seeds, and tried Harris who said they were out of stock......emailed and got this reply:

Dear Mr. Hewitt,
Thank you for contacting Harris Seeds. Unfortunately Sweet Cluster has been discontinued. We apologize for any inconvenience.

If there is anything else we can assist you with, please don't hesitate to ask. Have a wonderful day!

Sincerely,

Cristina
-----------------------------

are there any sources besides Harris?

Michael Hewitt

I will ask my friend where he gets his seed. I hope it wasn't from Harris seed.

Ted

Michael,

I haven't heard back from my friend, but Reimer Seed seems to have them.

Ted