Raised Bed Garden Conversion

[Got Worms?]

Absolutely beautiful, George. I love the wide paths, deep beds and trellising.

I've been addicted to garden porn for some time now; thanks for the fix.
Charlie

[DogsandDirt]

You have the most beautiful raised bed garden I've seen, and it's such an inspiraton. Thank you for sharing!

[RebelRidin]

Originally Posted by Got Worms?

Absolutely beautiful, George. I love the wide paths, deep beds and trellising.

I've been addicted to garden porn for some time now; thanks for the fix.
Charlie

Glad to help Charlie!

Originally Posted by DogsandDirt

You have the most beautiful raised bed garden I've seen, and it's such an inspiraton. Thank you for sharing!

My pleasure DogsAnd Dirt. I am enjoying it a lot.

[nativeplanter]

George (and anyone else who wants to chime in),
I have a similar situation as you (but in SE Virginia). Your garden is an inspiration! I have a high water table and water puddles after storms, so I built twelve 8 x 4 raised beds (three 2x4s high) three years ago (when we bought our first house). Filled them with topsoil/compost blend from the local waste management company. Big mistake. I don't think the compost was finished, and the first year everything was chlorotic. Second year growth was better, but still not great. Last year beds dried out super fast. I realized that the topsoil that was in the mix was really sandy, and the compost was hydrophobic. In addition, the large nearby elm and persimmon were sending up feeder roots into the beds, sucking them dry. So this year I have started re-doing them. I have dug out six, added a fourth 2x4 to make them a touch taller (and added a nifty little 1x4 trim), dug out below the bottom of the beds by about 8 to 12 inches into the silt/clay. I lined the sides and bottom with plastic sheeting, sloping the bottoms away from the offending trees for drainage along the 4-foot side. Dug a pit just outside each bed for the drainage to run into if needed and backfilled that with rock/sand. Then I thoroughly mixed the native material with the topsoil/compost, and that seems to be working out very, very nicely! Holds water and nutrients much better than before.

For years I have monkeyed with how best to trellis tomatoes. In college I worked at a hydroponic tomato farm and learned how to use the string/clip method, which I really like. The problem is how to do it gracefully when there isn't a greenhouse or other structure to fasten the horizontal wires to. I spent 10 years in Georgia where the vines grew 10-ft long, but we had plenty of bamboo to make structures with. The current setup uses 8-ft 2x2s attached to t-posts pounded in next to the beds, with wires stretching the 8 ft across. Of course, now in the forth summer, the 2x2 poles are really bending and the wire is rather like a smiley face. Thought about using guy wires to straighten them, but management said no (he thought it would be ugly). So I've been looking at doing something similar to your conduit trellis, just using strings/clips instead of netting.

I went to Home Depot yesterday and the 1/2-in conduit seemed rather flimsy to be spanning 8 ft. (while supporting 3-4 plants with 2-3 stems each). I bought the 3/4-in conduit. It was hard to find elbow connectors – I bought these:

But they were $5.74 each!!

I would have preferred these for $3.52, but they didn't seem to have them in stock:


I've noticed that most of what few elbows are available in the store are threaded. I'm guessing that these wouldn't grip very well even if they did fit, but I could be wrong.

Do you think your 1/2-inch conduit frames would span 8 feet without sagging too much? Or, if you wanted to build frames to span 8 feet, how would you do it (given your experience)? I plan to attach them to the boxes with the little U-brackets. I'm thinking I'd like them to be 8 feet tall as well, especially since the beds are now about 15 inches tall, which would make for 6-ft, 9-in of vertical trellis space.

I'll want to build six or eight of these things, and using the 3/4 inch material with the elbows I found is about $24 per trellis. Management would not be pleased at all. The 1/2 inch material would be much less expensive, but if they bend over 8 feet, then I'm back to square one (with an even less pleased spouse). PLUS, we seem to get hurricanes here, so high winds are an issue too. (Shoot - last weeks thunderstorm even blew clay flowerpots off the porch.)

Knowing all that you know... how would you go about building these?

(That's what you get for making such nice posts with photos - you're an expert in these matters!)

[RebelRidin]

Hi Nativeplanter,

I think the 1/2" thinwall can do what you need. I can see two ways to go about setting up for 8 ft beds. One way would be to make 4 foot wide setups like I did, put two down the side of a bed and lash the center posts together.

To make a singele 8 ft long trellis I would make it just like the 4 footers EXCEPT I would run the top stringer through a 3/4" CPVC tee from the plumbing department with about a 3" length of pipe glued in the downward leg of the T. Then I woud put a vertical into it essentially making a center "post" 4 ft from each end. The corners I would still use the 3/4" PVC conduit elbows. They are way cheaper than any of the metal fittings, accept the 1/2" thinwall easily and are UV resisteant. Now the 3/4" CPVC tee is not UV resistant so I would paint them. I suggest the CPVC because it is simply stronger than straight PVC.

Now as to the height.... I would not recommend verticals rising more than 6 feet above the top edge of the beds. The elbow corners add a few more inches in height making about 6 ft 3". I tried making them 7 feet and they seemed much too flimsy at that point. If you must go higher then I would add those inexpensive 5 ft drive in metal fence post(the cheap version of T posts) and lash the verticals to them. That would let you add a couple feet height without it all turning into a big fulcrum. Alternatively, if you put one down each side of the bed and lashed cross members at the top across the ends you would have a box like structure that would definately not sway a bit.

For fastening to the bed walls use two of the U clamps, one at the top edge of the bed and one at the bottom. Alternatively you can leave the verticals longer and push/drive them down into the soil to get them to the right height and use a single u clamp at the top of the bed.

Hope this helps. i am very pleased with mine so far. I have some plants over the tops of mine. The other night we had that howler of a storm come through with winds up to 70 mph. I had a tree top snap out that took out my chicken pen and yard funriture picked up and deposited in the above ground pool. With all that I only had one vertical warp a bit on my trellises but that was it. It was on the front bed, facing the wind. With 7 ft tall Sungold and Matt's Wild Cherry on it I think it was probably at its absolute limits but it held.

I am attaching some more pics of the garden that I took today. With the toms it is getting hard to even see some of the trellis anymore.

[nativeplanter]

Thanks for the ideas! I like the one with the center CPVC idea. I'll have to figure out how to support it in the middle of the bed, though. Since I dug down below the beds, the soil is nice and soft. I don't want to pound it in too far, or it would puncture the plastic liner that is keeping out the tree roots. I wonder if I can find some sort of part that looks like an end cap with a flat base on it. Or maybe I can make something like that. Or perhaps a rebar cap might fit.

It sound like 6 feet above the beds would have to do, since buying the metal fence posts would probably start to get close to the cost of using 3/4-inch conduit. I wonder if the 1-inch PVC conduit elbows would fit over the 3/4-inch conduit? Sounds like I need to go to the store and see. Today I'll put together the materials I bought for the one trellis using the 3/4-inch conduit, just to see how it does over 8 feet. If a center post is still needed, then it really sounds like the 1/2-inch conduit would be the best to use, cost-wise.

I can't remember if you said above how you cut the conduit. Hacksaw?

Your tomatoes look great, by the way! Mine got a late start since I was busy digging out and re-doing the beds, but the growing season is long here so it'll still be OK. The bed I finished first has nice big green tomatoes on it (that's the bed where the overhead wire is making the smiley face!)

[nativeplanter]

PS - I meant to ask - are your chickens OK after that storm? (Sounds like we had the same storm here - that nasty one from which many still don't have power upstate).

[RebelRidin]

I cut the conduit with a hacksaw. I have a bench vise with pipe clamp jaws which simplified that task. For the cneter post.... if you are attaching down one side of the bed the two conduit clamps hold the vertical very securely. The wont sink down any. If you are going down the center of the bed you could fasten a 2x4 across the bed, drive a 16 penny nail in the center and put the bottom of the pipe over the nail. That would keep the post supported and captive at the bottom. Also, if one goes down the center of the bed then you cound fasten guywires/cords to the bed corners and center sides. If you did that kind of bracing then I think you could easily go to 7 feet height or more.


I think that 1" PVC fittings would work with the 3/4" conduit btw. The chickens came through fine. Thank you for asking. They are still trying to figure out what the tree is doing in their space. Once the weather breaks (heat) I will saw it up and repair.

[janezee]

Nativeplanter, I have the same dilemma as you. I decided to go with a bender, two sticks of 1/2 inch conduit, and a joiner. I bent the two pieces of conduit at 3'7.5"to make the top bar 8'1" so the legs will clear the wood. to join them, I drilled 15/16ths holes on the bottom of the arch using the joint as a template for the placing of the hole. The joint helps you hold the drill in the right place for the pilot hole, which you will need with a hand drill. Be careful to line them up for the set screws to go through. The joints come in packages of 5 for a couple of dollars. I figured the money I saved on the joints alone, rather than the corners, would pay for the bender. ($32) and the netting that I won't tear on those corners, either.

I thought that the arches might need some strengthening for the heavy tomato rows, so I have plans to cut rebar to put in there before I join the arches.

I got 10' sticks of rebar and cut them into thirds, 3'4", and drove them halfway into the ground just outside the boxes. Slipped the trellis over the rebar, and ran twine for my peas and pole beans.

jane

[janezee]

Oh, to see what I mean about the netting, see my photos at the thread "Raised bed on legs finally finished, almost"

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=23696

[nativeplanter]

Thanks guys, that was some great advice! I have built one and started a new thread here, so as to not further hijack RebelRidin's rased bed topic.
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=23870

RebelRidin, the center support of a board with a nail is brilliant. Here I was, trying to think of all kinds of attachments. Board with a nail... Clearly I was overthinking things!

[lakelady]

George, I just saw this and want to say WOW! What a gorgeous garden you have. I am jealous. I often think I'd love to have a nice garden I can put an adirondack chair in with a small table so I can sit and enjoy it for hours. One of these days!

[RebelRidin]

Originally Posted by lakelady

George, I just saw this and want to say WOW! What a gorgeous garden you have. I am jealous. I often think I'd love to have a nice garden I can put an adirondack chair in with a small table so I can sit and enjoy it for hours. One of these days!

Thanks Antoinette. It was a lot of work but well worth it. We are enjoying it a lot. This last year we had fresh salad almost all winter. The challenge will be keeping the soil in good condition with plenty of manure and compost.

[Vespertino]

What a beautiful slice of Eden you have in your backyard! I've enjoyed the photos very much, especially watching your raised bed project progress from empty wood frames to plumes of green swallowing up every inch of lighted space. Great job!

[RebelRidin]

Originally Posted by Vespertino

What a beautiful slice of Eden you have in your backyard! I've enjoyed the photos very much, especially watching your raised bed project progress from empty wood frames to plumes of green swallowing up every inch of lighted space. Great job!

Thanks very much. Since this thread has come back up I thought I would grab a couple of picks to show how the garden looks today. Unfortunately I got busy out there and didn't think to take them until the light got a bit low.