Floating Seeds

[efisakov]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Thank you Ella for that I will tell everyone what two ingredients I put in gumbo that baffles people.
Chilli powder and cumin.
Among many others.
And no it doesn't make it taste like chilli.

Now I want gumbo.

Worth

me too

[Stvrob]

Originally Posted by Worth1

You guys are killing me.

There are two types of gumbo.
File gumbo with no okra.
File is the dried sassafras leaves from the sassafras tree.
Okra gumbo with okra.
Both gumbos have a roux.
I personally dont consider gumbo without okra gumbo because gumbo is the African word for okra and the soup made with it.
But what ever.
All gumbos start out with a roux made with oil and flour.
This roux is cooked until a chocolate brown then the holy trinity is added.
The holy trinity is onions peppers and celery.
Of course garlic red pepper and other spices would be involved.
Then you add broth and what ever meat you like.
I personally like only one type of meat in the gumbo.
If I cook a seafood gumbo the cooked shrimp and scallops are added at the serving and not onto the kettle.
This way the gumbo doesn't take on a strong fishy flavor and you dont over cook the shrimp and scallops.
I will add the okra and let it cook at the very last.
To this day people have no idea what I put in my gumbo.

They wouldn't believe it because it doesn't taste like it is in there.

Worth

My original question was about the acid treatment of Okra, and whether it would affect the the thickening properties of Okra for the third type of gumbo in which the Okra itself forms the base...no file, no roux, just long slow cooked okra the way traditional summer gumbos are made.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Stvrob

My original question was about the acid treatment of Okra, and whether it would affect the the thickening properties of Okra for the third type of gumbo in which the Okra itself forms the base...no file, no roux, just long slow cooked okra the way traditional summer gumbos are made.

Yes it will to some extent even cooking it with tomatoes does the same thing due to the acid.
I cant say as I have ever had a slimy gumbo because I have always put tomatoes in it.
Did you know the leaves are a soup thickener.

Worth

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by Stvrob

You can use either roux, file, or okra as the thickening agent. If you have okra in a file thickened gumbo, its there as an accessory ingredient, not the base. At least thats my understanding.

Roux is used no matter what, the roux is the whole foundation of any type of gumbo ... and yes it thickens up the stock. If you screw up the roux, you basically screw up the gumbo.
Purist seem to think that you cannot have filé with okra, but you definitely can - I have eaten so many gumbos and cannot distinguish if filé was even used unless it added in the pot fresh just prior to serving (which is what most people do). If filé is cooked in, it looses its flavor quickly but it does thicken the gumbo up. I usually use less stock and cook it down a bit - I like a less soupy gumbo. I love Robin & Oyster gumbo, Chicken gumbo and Most of all Seafood gumbo. Yes, Robin is the red-breasted bird variety. In general I rarely use filé, but I always have it on hand (just in case). Okra is a must in any gumbo in my opinion.

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by Stvrob

My original question was about the acid treatment of Okra, and whether it would affect the the thickening properties of Okra for the third type of gumbo in which the Okra itself forms the base...no file, no roux, just long slow cooked okra the way traditional summer gumbos are made.

After further thought on your "original" question - Yes - I do think desliming takes away some of thickening properties of the okra because if you add slime to anything it will thicken. However; as I said - just use less stock or boil down to thicken. Filé is of course another option.

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by efisakov

Worth, I would eat your gumbo no matter what you put in it.
btw never tasted gumbo in my life ...
I wonder if there is a place in NJ/NY area that makes good gumbo.

There are quite a few good restaurant choices around the NYC/North Jersey area that have some awesome gumbo (and some that claim to, but do not) - search Cajun Cuisine on Yelp.com or another Restaurant review site for your area and you will find some to start your quest. There was a small semi-casual restaurant/pub in the Suffern, NY area that had some pretty good stuff (can't remember the name). You might need to invite me for dinner to prove their authenticity however!

[Stvrob]

Originally Posted by rhines81

Roux is used no matter what, the roux is the whole foundation of any type of gumbo ... and yes it thickens up the stock. If you screw up the roux, you basically screw up the gumbo.
Purist seem to think that you cannot have filé with okra, but you definitely can - I have eaten so many gumbos and cannot distinguish if filé was even used unless it added in the pot fresh just prior to serving (which is what most people do). If filé is cooked in, it looses its flavor quickly but it does thicken the gumbo up. I usually use less stock and cook it down a bit - I like a less soupy gumbo. I love Robin & Oyster gumbo, Chicken gumbo and Most of all Seafood gumbo. Yes, Robin is the red-breasted bird variety. In general I rarely use filé, but I always have it on hand (just in case). Okra is a must in any gumbo in my opinion.

You sound like you know what you are talking about. All I can say is that many gumbo's, despite the "it starts with a Roux" meme, are actually based on the okra itself, and do not use a flour based roux. Perhaps its a misnomer to call these recipes gumbo?

Here is a seafood okra gumbo pulled off the internet. Would this recipe, using 2 pounds of okra and no roux be considered a gumbo?

http://www.cookingchanneltv.com/reci...kra-gumbo.html


Added link about the history of gumbo:
http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/09/h...le-powder.html
part 2. http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/09/h...umbo-roux.html

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

The reason I ask is with tomato and pepper seeds - the ones floating get tossed aside because they won't grow.

And to think ... now this is a GUMBO thread!

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by Stvrob

You sound like you know what you are talking about. All I can say is that many gumbo's, despite the "it starts with a Roux" meme, are actually based on the okra itself, and do not use a flour based roux. Perhaps its a misnomer to call these recipes gumbo?

Here is a seafood okra gumbo pulled off the internet. Would this recipe, using 2 pounds of okra and no roux be considered a gumbo?

http://www.cookingchanneltv.com/reci...kra-gumbo.html


Added link about the history of gumbo:
http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/09/h...le-powder.html

The recipe you posted is more like a seafood stew (with okra) - probably would be good, but not authentic. It would be missing "something" without the roux base. Crawfish is NOT seafood (but it is good and is often added). A seafood gumbo is usually just fish, shrimp and blue crab. The shrimp and blue crab (also the crawdads if used) are cooked in old bay (or other favorite seasoning), peeled and added to the gumbo towards the end of the boil, but prior to the simmer. To remove the bay leaves before serving is sacrilege. Nothing like taking a bite and puling the leaf out of your mouth while enjoying the bit of extra seasoning. Also, including at least one small uncracked blue crab claw in each bowl is a must. Proper etiquette and stuff.

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by Stvrob

You sound like you know what you are talking about.

I grew up about 1 hour from New Orleans .... I know my gumbo.

[Worth1]

There is no such thing as a gumbo without a roux.
I have seen many of these so called gumbos without a roux and it drives me nuts.
I just spent all day making chicken sausage gumbo and it turned out pretty good.

Worth

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by Worth1

There is no such thing as a gumbo without a roux.
I have seen many of these so called gumbos without a roux and it drives me nuts.
I just spent all day making chicken sausage gumbo and it turned out pretty good.

Worth

Please tell me you used Andouille sausage!

[Stvrob]

Originally Posted by rhines81

The recipe you posted is more like a seafood stew (with okra) - probably would be good, but not authentic. It would be missing "something" without the roux base. Crawfish is NOT seafood (but it is good and is often added). A seafood gumbo is usually just fish, shrimp and blue crab. The shrimp and blue crab (also the crawdads if used) are cooked in old bay (or other favorite seasoning), peeled and added to the gumbo towards the end of the boil, but prior to the simmer. To remove the bay leaves before serving is sacrilege. Nothing like taking a bite and puling the leaf out of your mouth while enjoying the bit of extra seasoning. Also, including at least one small uncracked blue crab claw in each bowl is a must. Proper etiquette and stuff.

Im wondering if the roux-based gumbos you are talking about are really just the cajun type gumbos, and that is what you are refering to as authentic. I think the style in other parts of the SE coast, are still authentic, they were certainly being made and served before roux based gumbo was being served in New Orleans restaurants. These are types from West Indies and West Africa and are still a mainstay in the SE atlantic coast

Look at those other two links I added above in an edit.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by rhines81

Please tell me you used Andouille sausage!

I couldn't find any I was so ticked off they usually have it but since the new store change I have noticed several things missing.
I did use a good Czech sausage though made here in Texas.

Worth

[rhines81]

Originally Posted by Stvrob

Im wondering if the roux-based gumbos you are talking about are really just the cajun type gumbos, and that is what you are refering to as authentic.

There is no other type of gumbo.

I did enjoy your history link very much (thanks for that!), but without a roux and some type of spice (i.e. Cajun seasonings) ... it's a stew or a soup.
Gumbo is sort of like chili. Every family has there own style and ingredients (and I have had literally hundreds of varieties). Once they become more like a soup or a gooey vegetable platter with sauce ... it really can't be a gumbo (in my view). The roux however is required, or it is just a stew. But then again, there are all kinds of dishes that people want to label as chili too.
Not saying that the other recipes are not good eating ... most sound delishious ... but gumbo is gumbo and chili is chili. I guess the rule boundaries are personal.

By the way... London Broil is not a steak!