Cool Temp Tomatoes That also resist Heat

[Al@NC]

I'll have to try some of these next year, especially Old Brooks.

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by Al@NC

Blackbear,
Are you familiar with https://www.heritageharvestseed.com/...in.html#slogan?

They have several varieties that sound like they would do well for us!

I'm seeing Old Brooks, Beaver Lodge Slicer, Mountain Princess, and Mystery Keeper seem to do well for them in Manitoba.

Mystery Keeper seems interesting and reads:

A long keeping storage tomato that can last several months. Medium size fruit ripen from the inside out and are slightly more acidic than other tomatoes. When picked in the yellow to light green stage in the fall (before frost), the tomatoes continue to ripen indoors over the winter months. Determinate, regular leaf foliage. (80- 90 days from transplant)

Oh yes I know of them and the geographic area well...

I have most definitely ordered from them and would do so again.......

the last few years my modus operandi has been to

use Tatiana's tomatobase (Ya gotta know that one !) as an initial research engine and then order from Tatiana's if they have it.
A lot of times you really have to look around .

I have been most happy with Tomato fest in California and Solana seeds in Quebec .
Victory seeds , Adaptive Seeds , Heritage harvest seeds ,Casey's Heirloom Tomatoes of Airdie and others .

Mystery keeper is one I in most years would not attempt ...as really a 75 day max . estimate

is really pushing it here for a normal year . (not an 80-90)

as even as we have a longer frost free days period ....we (Normally) do not get the heat/light that matches the 90 days at the right time .....I think it would work for Tacoma though.

I think we actually could have done it here ...This year as you know ...we are having a record hot/dry year . The spectre of pan-pacific coast drought even affecting Washington State is kind of unthinkable before .

I have Beaver Lodge slicer going this year as well ...worked well last year in a container .

[wormgirl]

I am growing Mountain Princess, I found it at the same local plant sale I previously mentioned. It is a vigorous, bushy plant. I'll let you all know how it turns out!

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by wormgirl

I am growing Mountain Princess, I found it at the same local plant sale I previously mentioned. It is a vigorous, bushy plant. I'll let you all know how it turns out!

I heard that one Mountain Princess has a good rep .

The Silvery fir question you asked before ...I have one now in a 7 gallon (it is just going nuts and producing lots of fruit )
and some in smaller containers . I have some "Clones " ready from early from before pruning usually I place them in a spare left over place or just give them away ... I have before just placed a "Clone " in a 1 gallon holding container and the placement must have been right as it produced good solid medium size fruit. I hate to say it but they are turning into one of the most adaptable Tomatoes(for me)....but as I said before many do not like the tartness of them as they prefer a Big classic Tomato taste . I think a 5 gallon silvery fir is plenty and I am trying to mess with 2 / 2.5 gallon culture which I think I can make Silvery Fir work .

[Al@NC]

Blackbear, have you tried Nepal yet?

http://jandlgardens.com/catalog/inde...roducts_id=198

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by Al@NC

Blackbear, have you tried Nepal yet?

http://jandlgardens.com/catalog/inde...roducts_id=198

I did have one plant about 5 years ago going in a terrible sub 70F /20C summer ......I actually think I bought the plant by mistake .......and it did do rather well ...but a bit later developing . I think it is most worth the look again ......I actually went through the phase of trying out the early /coolest/coldest ...and it was just a bit later so it kind of fell off my radar . I do remember it certainly had nice blemish free fruit and seemed to keep going in the cool .
I now have the place to start it inside early so maybe it is a good one to look at in context of this heat tolerant (Insurance) pursuit as well.

Good Tip !

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by BlackBear

Well it is "hotter" than historical norm for May with heat records being broken .... our local rivers are also at historical lows ..the kind nobody ever thought we in the cool wet would ever have to worry about. One community canceled a water boat event that has gone back to WW II because this year there is not enough water for the boats to hold it.
If we don't get some major storms soon to fill up our reservoirs we actually will have some major decisions to make over... water/power/ fish .....Nooobody ever thought we would have to worry about this much in the "Rain Forest " .

So yes I have fruit set ....but I am impatient as it is not as good when I matched the cool early cultivars with the dependable cool coastal early spring. I know this is a mute point for some as many around here subscribe to the view as to not put your tomatoes out till June 1st due to the cool cold (gasp...can you imagine !)

The actual temps seem actually perfect now for great growth ...but I will wait and see how a bump of temp. would affect the micro climate of my garden site .

All of a sudden having higher seasonal temps and FULL sun instead of normal temps and normal am overcast with pm sun seem to amplify temp in my particular garden site setting . We shall just have to wait and see for June/July/August if the hotter /Sunnier /dry season persists.

Yes Silvery fir seems to be one that can take the heat but produce in marginal cool settings also ....but many do not like the taste....bah....they still are great ! ..ornamental and flexible for climate as well as container inside and out.
I will always have a couple Silvery Fir in "the Tomato Portfolio " LOL

Black Bear, What kind of temperatures you have up there in BC ? And to be more descriptive, WHAT IS YOUR HEAT ZONE ?
I Have relative living in Vancouver ,BC, and I know it is even cooler up there than here in Seattle, WA area.

Talking about average for highs here, in NE Seattle areat :

--- June 66F = 19 C
--- July 71 F = 22C
Of course we get few bubbles now and then too.

Gardeneer

[BlackBear]

we are a good 7B (8) with the horticultural rating with good long frost free period ...

but our days of bright sunshine are fairly low compared to the interior .

and actual heat degree growing days ........ is like only 1500 - 1600 ?

but as these heat degree days are spread out over a longer cool frost free period it is harder

to utilize the full growing season compared to an area with shorter /brighter/ warmer growing season that most tomatoes do better in.



( I think the heat degree growing day is calculated by the average of low and high

over 4 or 5 C....so a day of 4 low and 6 hi would give you a 1 for heat degree growing days (for the day ) and a 15 lo and 25 hi would give you a "15" heat degree growing for the day .

This heat degree day stuff is all fine and dandy till the "unthinkable" happens and it gets to hot and the inverse growth rate happens ...for Tomatoes especially those cool set Siberian types or others without the heat/extra sun resistance.

I believe in this record april/may dry/ sun we are already about an extra 500 heat degree units above normal. 500 extra heat degree units is really close to being a majority portion of our "usable" heat degree days of a normal growing year here .


I am just happy today as it actually is RAINING .......I will do a little Blackbear dance !

as the outdoor containers are being watered ...like a normal year .

This is June 2nd .....in other years
we could be Fishing in the ocean then go up and Ski at our local ski hill first week of June .......

but this year There is NO SNOW PAK..........

also
the rivers and lakes are lower than the previous dry year .....

at least there will be Blackberrries and Salmonberries for a Blackbear this year

but if the water is to low for Salmon .....I may have to go on a diet .

[wormgirl]

Hey I found an app for the iPhone called "Growing Degree Days" and it's free. It says Sammamish has had 460 GDD so far this year (the year starts in April). Just about the same as last. 2425 last year.

Tacoma is listed as having had 438 so far, again, just about the same as last year. 2242 last year.

I can't seem to get data on Campbell River, but Nanaimo has had 405 so far this year. 2062 total last year.

Just for comparison:
Portland 2816
Ashland (Southern Oregon) 3281
San Francisco 2622
San Bernadino (there's no data for Los Angeles, this is nearby) 3793
San Diego 3819

[BlackBear]

ya we are north of Nanaimo and we get almost 2 times as much rain as there ...(normally)

more fog, cooler etc. ...but very nice (no air conditioner needed) summers.

but amazingly enough I think we also get more frost free days than Nanaimo south ....

due to the increased partial exposure to the outer coast marine influence .

anyway with out looking it up.....OK ..... I will look it up ...ha ha ha


Campbell River Growing Day Degrees ( Above 5 C)

Jan. (10 ) Feb. (13) March (39) April (111) May (216) June (290) July (376)
August (384) Sept (269) ) Oct. (135 ) Nov. (33) Dec. (11)

For an actual Season Comparison of 1887 heat degree days annual !! ????

But as there are actual "off season" growing units from October to April that are extremely hard to access with out greenhouse/ indoor grow. and up here the end of August can have a traditional deluge of cold rain distinctly marking the end of high summer.

Many do not put Tomatoes out here till June . I push it with the Siberian cool types (May2 is my date)

So really the practical heat degree days here pushing it with the May 2nd start date (to Sept 30) is about 1535 !! and if you only put plants out June 1st it is only 1319 !!....but they may be happier plants placed later if not "cool tolerant " .


I believe May up here was way more out of wack from the local norm in heat growing days
than say Nanaimo norm ....still all around hot ...but we deviated from the norm even further to the hot side. Hopefully the next few months will "average out " .


When I see the San Diego growing units I think I will just give up on the cool climate pursuit ..........NOT !

ha ha ha

[wormgirl]

Hey BlackBear, I was reading some more today about Mountain Princess, and it turns out it's determinate (that would explain the bushyness!) and is said in several reviews on Dave's Garden to continue setting fruit in very hot (100 degree) weather.

I also was just reading about Carbon Copy (small fruited Carbon created by a TomatoVillian) and he also said it sets fruit in 100 degree weather. I am not sure how it performs in cool, but because it is small fruited and ripens early, it seems like a good bet. I definitely want to try it next year. It's said to taste just like regular Carbon, which is said to be similiar to Cherokee Purple, a "big tomato" taste.

I actually have been keeping a list of tomato varieties to try that I think would be good candidates for our part of the world, BUT, I was not particularly thinking of plants that would do well in heat as well as cool. But I guess considering today's weather... (it was over 90 here today!) Did you have a scorcher up there too? I am happy to keep accumulating heat units! And although today was on the hot side, I have fruit set on nearly all my plants. We are having great weather for setting in general right now.

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by wormgirl

Hey BlackBear, I was reading some more today about Mountain Princess, and it turns out it's determinate (that would explain the bushyness!) and is said in several reviews on Dave's Garden to continue setting fruit in very hot (100 degree) weather.

I also was just reading about Carbon Copy (small fruited Carbon created by a TomatoVillian) and he also said it sets fruit in 100 degree weather. I am not sure how it performs in cool, but because it is small fruited and ripens early, it seems like a good bet. I definitely want to try it next year. It's said to taste just like regular Carbon, which is said to be similiar to Cherokee Purple, a "big tomato" taste.

I actually have been keeping a list of tomato varieties to try that I think would be good candidates for our part of the world, BUT, I was not particularly thinking of plants that would do well in heat as well as cool. But I guess considering today's weather... (it was over 90 here today!) Did you have a scorcher up there too? I am happy to keep accumulating heat units! And although today was on the hot side, I have fruit set on nearly all my plants. We are having great weather for setting in general right now.

yuppers on the extreme heat ... It was forecast to be 27 C at 2:00 it was reading over 30 C

at many locations and with "humidex" felt like 32 C ...32 C = 90F......

This Temp. is only supposed to happen ..."once in a blue moon ". here.

The elderly here are not used to the heat (me as well ). No Snow pak. Low rivers ...

I even see more wasps developed already ! (wasps are not a problem developing in the season till last week of august/ 1st week Sept.....on a normal year.

I saw a news clip that the whole pacific west.......The whole thing was 20F above average temp today from Washington/Oregon/California / and inland states the whole shebang...was
up 20F above normal ...wooaaaa to us all if this continues . If early June feels like August now....what will August be if this pattern does not break up a bit ?!


As I said before all plants that had blossoms set fruit ! and to me the heat development has lead to faster growth.....like at least 6 weeks early ...depending on how you measure.....

example ....I think I will have Black prince ripe next week ....eeeeks ! this is usually a mid - end of August happening for me.

As I said before this is not my normal cool climate game...and my normal favourites ...were unhappy in this heat.

Hot /Dry/ Full sun ......will we get 5 months of Summer this year ??? some years we get
NO SUMMER by many peoples standards.

I really took the common sense /experience of bower ...and just slogged through with the extra watering and looked into shading (which was never a thing I had to do before).

One good fortune was ...in this goofy climate my perennial herb Lovage has liked this sun/ heat very much ...and actually shot up 10 feet ! this had the good fortune to offer some shade to some important area of tomatoes.

this is the 2nd year this has happened and the heat/dry/sun is more pronounced...

I will be more prepared next year for round 3 of this climate shift ....or....the old cool climate deal if it reverts back.

I am watching closely this year to ones I am growing and still keeping an eye out and searching for info on the best varieties that would still be a good cool set/ heat resistant
"hedge your bet " play .

[Tracydr]

Might be worth constructing a shade structure. Harbor Freight has inexpensive shade material. I used to buy them there for $29.00, a 12x24.

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

Might be worth constructing a shade structure. Harbor Freight has inexpensive shade material. I used to buy them there for $29.00, a 12x24.

It most definitely is worth it .........

I will need to study this a bit more ..... if shade placement shaves off a few hours of Sunshine in present conditions this is most healthier it would seem.

I can't believe how spoiled I was before ....the sky provided the "shading " and diffuse light
and the rainy from time to time meant ...only on occasion would one have to Top up water in containers as the transpiration and heat were gentle . Yes this year is much ahead for fruit development....but as I was not geared to this record change ...the extra watering was not how I had designed the garden placement for ....soooo if this keeps up I will have to look at more than just a double barrel 2 stage water Temperature upgrader....but figure out how to auto water metered portions to all the plants .....2 times a day .....I do not want to go there...yet.

[BlackBear]

Siletz was not my favourite before ....but this season it is most respectable

early/loaded/ hot or cool temps ...I guess the parthenocarpic thing is a help.



I guess I will have to retry Legend as well ....again another that was not my favourite ...but with the Late blight resistance as well as parthenocarpic etc.